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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know ultimately I should go with what sounds best, but I'll be running a setup with a lot of FR overlap and I'm wondering where to start.

I think I've decided to run a Dayton rs180 that’s good up to 2K and a full range Tang Band W2-880 that’s clean from maybe 350hz to 8K with a dayton ND20TB that’s good from 3.5K up.

So bass to mid crossover range from 350hz - 2k. 350 may be pushing it though...

mid to tweet crossover range from 3.5K to 8k.

What are the optimum crossover points and slopes? is it best to use slow slopes and fade between the two drivers, or use sharp slopes to avoid overlap? I'm mounting the mids and tweets in the a pillar and the bass in the doors so I don't want the sound to jump up and down...

I also have a HiVi B3S which is WAY bigger than the tiny 2" and really I would prefer to use the tang Band due to its tiny size. I would have to make dash pods or mound them in the doors, this driver is good from maybe 150hz up though...

any guidance?
Thanks,
-Jeff
 

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I'm pretty sure you don't need the mid. just find a tweeter that can go down well, and use 1800Hz crossover point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I actually have a pair of rs28's, but I have a small car and I'm not sacrificing pedal space for kicks. The only place those huge things is in the doors and really I would rather hack holes in the easily found and replaceable A pillar than the door pannel......

Besides I like the idea of having most my sound coming from above the dash and I want to try it out. Its not the typical setup, but I like trying different things, thats what diy is all about right ;)

-Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Beau - I'll take some pics for you and post them in the morning.

Everyone - I guess what I'm looking for here is what are the best places in music to crossover? I've seen the recomendation to cross the mid in the 200-300 range so it can cover the entire vocal range, but what if you can't make it down that low? should you cross it as low as possible or is 800hz (a typicall mid dome crossover point) a more natural crossover point?

I'm asking what are the most natural sounding crossover points?

Thanks,
-Jeff
 

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a lot of people say that you shouldn't cross over between 1-3kHz since our ears are very sensitive in this region and that's where most human vocals lie. However, I disagree with this theory, and I don't think crossover points matter, so long as the drivers used likes those crossover points.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
ok I've got those pictures for you. Also included a pic of the 2" tangband, the 3" hivi and the tweeter. as you can see the 2" is tiny and could be mounted dang near anywhere.

theres not way the rs28 will fit where I'm wanting to put the 2" tangband and the little tweet. I already have the 2"ers sitting (in makeshift cardboard enclosures) on my dash. (posted a pic of that as well - rs180's are in the modified stock 4X6 location)the cardboard is having little/no effect (they sound baffless) but hey it looks a little better untill I mount them correctly. Even just sitting there baffless they sound really good! I'm only adding the tweeter because the 2's will be mounted off axis, on axis the 2's have rather good highs.

today for the fun of it I stuck the hivi's on my dash like I had the tang bands. voices sound a little fuller, but they don't fit up there (although they are a little smaller than the rs28 without the plate) overall these do need a tweeter imo even on axis while the 2"ers don't. I like the midrange better though, and if I could get them to fit I would.


I'm not really looking for a discusion of should I use my rs28's; it seems no one has tried using these little speakers like this so I'm going to try it. What I am looking for is some guidance on the setup i've chosen.
 

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That last picture is definitely DIYMA style ;) So the driver with the silver phase plug is the tang band? Can you post a close-up picture of just it?

(sorry, I don't have any advice about your setup)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
sure, heres a couple. as you can see the magnet is quite small and its shielded, but its neodymium so I guess thats to be expected; it just looks so small compared to the massive magnet on the hivi.

the frame is plastic... that upset me at first but its rather thick and is probably stronger and more resistant to resonance than a thin stamped frame so whatever...

you can also see its vented under the spider... not that it has a lot of excursion or anything, but nice to see I guess.
 

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i'm rather fond of the top end on the TB 2"s i got....thought about sticking them where my tweeters are and just not running tweeters :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
they do sound rather good. The only reason I planned be using tweeters is because I'll be mounting them in the A pillars facing inward... the off axis responce isn't the best in the upper range, although its probably about as good as it gets as far as cone speakers go. I don't know... maybe I can point them twards me enough that I won't need the tweeters. I guess I need to play with the positioning a little more...

I think tonight I'll put a TB 2" on one side and an rs28 on the other for comparison... I somehow blew one of the rs28's I have (I guess it was defective), so I only have one...
 
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Hi Jeff,

sorry, just saw your post. I have a pair of JBL GTO220's ( a 2.5" mid/ 0.5" tweeter coaxial) mounted in small PVC pods up on (in the corners) of my dash. They are crossed @300hz. They are pointed at slight angles inwards.
In my standard door locations are Illusion Audio ND604's crossed @ about 400hz (its been several yrs since I did the install). An Infinity Basslink runs below 40hz in the trunk. There are no rears. The entire image is above the dash, infront of you, similar to what you would hear at home. The balance(control) is shifted slightly towards the passenger side to center the image. Unfortunately, because of the huge amount of reflections, the image is much more difuse than I would hear on my home rig. It is however, the only way "I" would approach a car setup. Not perfect, but IMHO, the correct approach. I've never seen a live music performance where someone sounded like they were playing an instrument behind me. Or on the floor in front of me. I haven't heard the TB, but I really see no need for the tweeter in your setup. The midwoofer and the TB would be my approach. that's pretty much what I have.
I sacrificed max vol capability for SQ, since I value my hearing anyway ;) .
At 300hz, the TB won't play too loud without some distortion creeping in, even with a steep slope, which would be a bit tough to integrate.

Cheers,

AJ

(btw, I swore I had some pics, but its been yrs, can't seem to find em - sorry)
 

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My only advice would be to realize that to get the proper acoustic slopes, keep in mind your electrical slopes may have to vary quite alot between left and right side. That, and to improve lower midrange distortion performance you may want to think of a higher electrical xover point for the mid.

I'm a fan of steep slopes, since you can push the driver to it's limits... and I don't think phase coherency in a car is going to be a concern for anyone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thank you for the words npdang and AJinFLA. (I was slow to respond because I've been at my girlfriends)

AJ - I would love to check out your setup; it’s also nice to see I'm not the only one to try this configuration. With my testing I'm really digging having all the vocals coming from above the dash. I guess that’s why the idea stuck with me, i placed the 2"s on the dash temporarily and really enjoyed the sound. I don't want to go back to the sound coming from my feet...

in my testing I found I'd like to keep the 7"ers out of the vocals. What I'm thinking is run the 2" as low as possible with a very steep slope and cross the mid with a slow slope and eq the it down(eq each driver independently) so the only overlap is helping fill where the 2" is lacking in the lower range. I don't think it would be distracting if most the sound is coming from the 2".

I played with the hivi b3s on the dash. They are a little too big and look dumb up there, but wanted to see how they sound. While they easily go low enough to handle the entire vocal range and sound a little fuller they need a tweeter badly - consider them midranges not full rangers like advertised- running on their own the sound is a little muddy and the imaging sucks, while the 2"s sound very sharp and detailed, and the soundstage is very wide - rather good tweeters really. I think with proper enclosures and maybe a little eq work they will sound really good! yeah the additional tweeter is scratched from the project, its unnecessary.

My crossover is really holding me back... I think the DCX2496 would be perfect :D time to save up!

-Jeff
 
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