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Curious how you deal with different sub levels, different genres with DSP?

4K views 38 replies 19 participants last post by  Bayboy 
#1 ·
Im currently using DEH80prs with 2 way active set up. Going to be upgrading/ trying my first DSP soon and planning the next system for another car. Something Im always having to do is change the level of my sub according to the genre of music. Some recordings have a difference of 10db sub for it to sound balanced. (dubstep to some latin music for example). Was curious how the DSP users get around this since everything is set on the computer and generally left in place. I did see some amps have a remote bass, or the helix director has a sub volume knob. Does the change in volume affect the tune and balance of the system, like crossovers? Is it better to leave it at the most balanced spot and not adjust volume at all?

Thank you
 
#3 ·
Oh Oh.. You reached that DSP Cliff. :cool: That Little Dirty secret about Music and how they mix it for its particle audience.

The only thing I can tell you about your question is trust your ears. Settings be Damned.
Lol good one. Yes its always an issue especially with 15s IB. My PRS I can hit the audio settings and leave it on sub level to adjust, a dash knob would be nicer but I don't have one for that amp. All this stuff on here about setting levels and tuning, well you do your best but the differences in source materials pretty much makes a mess of many settings. It all depends on what you play. If you play the same thing all the time you have an easier life.

Back in the old days we put an EQ and/or xover right in the dash or under, and every song you could make it sound right if you wanted. People would laugh at that today right? But you can change the sub with most EQ and xovers which is what most people were doing.
 
#4 ·
I had the same question as you with a DSP that do not have the ability to easily change presets and one of the suggestion I got that made a lot of sense to me is to set the crossovers, EQ and time alignment in the DSP targeting a baseline, like a global set up and then use the headunit's equalizer pre sets to adjust for different types of music

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
 
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#6 ·
This.^^
 
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#7 ·
Double post.
 
#8 ·
Once I get a solid tune down, I don't feel the need to adjust the sub based on genre. Ideally, you shouldn't have to.

Yes, adjusting the sub level does affect the crossover, as you increase the sub output you are adding a lot of extra output to at least an octave above the actual crossover point, so not only are you increasing subbass, you are bloating the midbass. If you want to increase the sub from where your original tune is, you will want to make a gap between the sub and midbass. But again, if you can get the subbass, crossover, and midbass nice and smooth in the first place, you shouldn't need to make adjustments based on genre.
 
#9 ·
I
Once I get a solid tune down, I don't feel the need to adjust the sub based on genre. Ideally, you shouldn't have to.

Yes, adjusting the sub level does affect the crossover, as you increase the sub output you are adding a lot of extra output to at least an octave above the actual crossover point, so not only are you increasing subbass, you are bloating the midbass. If you want to increase the sub from where your original tune is, you will want to make a gap between the sub and midbass. But again, if you can get the subbass, crossover, and midbass nice and smooth in the first place, you shouldn't need to make adjustments based on genre.
It's not so much the genre sometimes but the mastering of the music. You can have a spot on tune but if it got mastered with issues in the bass region a sub level control works well. Yes it might bloat your midbass a little, but if the fundamentals were screwed up the harmonics follow suit.
 
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#21 ·
I pretty much fiddle with my bass knob all the time. It’s absolutely genre dependent and within genre for that matter, for me. If you listen to rap, plus anything else, a bass knob is damn near essential. The odd thing is that there are so few good bass knobs to be had. It makes no sense (to me, anyway). It’s either an afterthought or non-existent for almost all brands.
 
#25 ·
Tbh I’m with the others I would look at your tune, once you have the sub eq’d everything comes out in its right levels, even if you turn the sub up the midbass is still lacking so the bass sounds bloated and awful

I am definitely a volume man only, sub level isn’t required when a good tune is laid, if it has a bit less bass than I’d like then it has bass, that’s how it was mastered and written, I suspect some of those who say they always need to adjust bass level don’t ever have a balanced system with a good tune laid on it, half the time systems I listen to lack phase cohesion in the lower mid/midbass/subwoofer region that then cocks up the balance and makes lots of music sound odd
 
#26 ·
Dr. Floyd Toole has suggested that there's nothing wrong with minor tonal adjustments during playback. To claim what anyone in the recording process intended, you'd pretty much would have to been there to hear what they heard. That's chasing your tail.

Note that the suggestion was tonal, not level, particularly the sub. This suggests a simple solution that has been around for decades though often given a bad rap.... loudness feature, and it is not the devil. The next step up, which unfortunately is exclusive to certain DSP's and one amp series that I'm aware of (JBL MS-A), is the handy dandy shelf filter. Either of those features allows for quick tonal adjustment without disturbing the mesh between sub & mid. If you have neither, a global EQ preset can still work much better than fiddling with sub level.

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
 
#27 ·
Something I've been wondering that is related to this thread....

Since I have a PAC AmpPro 4 -> Helix DSP.3 - connected via optical cable, I believe that adjusting the "Bass" slider on my factory head-unit would actually adjust both the sub and the midbass levels at the same amounts (thereby keeping the submidbass relationship "intact"), simply because the AmpPro -> Helix connection is only 2-channel stereo. At the DSP, I then take the left and right signals, apply crossovers (and other "stuff") and then send those signals to the amp.

So.... If I simply adjust the Bass slider on the head-unit (which defaults to 100hz with a Q of .5, but is configurable via the AmpPro), I believe it would let me adjust the bass levels while also keeping the submidbass crossover point and levels intact, which is a good thing.

Would you agree that is how it would work with this setup? Basically, my factory head-unit Bass slider becomes a "smart" bass knob. I think... ;-)
 
#29 · (Edited)
That's exactly how it will work and is ideal for adding or lessening. It should be preferred over level.

The one thing often overlooked is if the low end is too strong or weak, then its more than likely having a similar effect on the mid. Even with a -24db slope, there's still enough going on beneath the mid's crossover that DOES add to the sum.

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
 
#32 ·
Going to be upgrading/ trying my first DSP soon
With Helix DSPs (among the best, I hear) you can buy a cheap URC3 remote which offers separate (programmable) rotary knobs which I use for Master Volume and Subwoofer Volume. EZ

The knobs are a little small and stiff though. Your fingers will hurt after some use, similar to how they did as a kid when you played console for an entire weekend.
 
#33 · (Edited)
I think this thread brings up the question each one has to ask their self, "What is my listen intent?"
#1 "I want to hear the recording reproduced accurately as the Artist intended" or #2 "I don't care what the artist wanted , this is my music and I will bend and twist it till I like it." There is no right or wrong answer but your answer will affect how you set up and tune your system.

Also the reason the most music pre CD did not have a lot of sub bass was because it had to be cut into a vinyl disc. There were many limitations and low frequency amplitude was one of them.
 
#39 · (Edited)
Despite having the fader function of an 80prs run through a Helix to adjust sub level, my better alternative has been just to use the deck's EQ presets (including custom) when needed which is rare.... global EQ that is. Still it works great especially in keeping the sub & midbass aligned and various genres that need a specific frequency touched. Best of all.... it's free!

Man & Machine... Power Extreme!
 
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