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Discussion Starter #1
In all fairness to DAT he has yet to respond to my PM containing the list of issues but he has posted since I sent the PM yesterday, including a new thread in the classified section. Since he's working deals I'm sure he's read my PM.

The short story:

I bought a TRU S44 from DAT that he said was "new and will work." As soon as I installed it the amp was noisy both from the speakers AND from the amp itself. After several PMs back and forth DAT said, "Contact Jon @ TRU and send him the amp, let's see what he says." Yesterday I got a call from Jon at TRU and he said that the amp has several problems:

1. Channel C&D have high distortion
2. The fan circuit is causing noise
3. Transformer is buzzing
4. The power supply needs to be upgraded

It's going to cost $150-$250 for the repair.

From our previous PMs he said that he does not accept returns. I feel that he should give me a FULL refund including the costs incurred to send it to TRU. He said the product was "new and will work" but it doesn't.

I'm hoping I'll get a reply from DAT saying that he'll give me a refund as requested. Prior to sending it to TRU I told him he should be a stand up seller and take the amp back so he doesn't tarnish his name. I hope that he does the right thing.

The whole story goes like this:

He listed the amp as "open box" and when I PM'd him about it he said, "it was a open box, never connected to power. Not a return. I got it form a dealer in Hawaii. no warranty, its new and will work."

I decided that it would be worth picking this up and DATs selling history seemed to be good.

When I received the amp I was surprised that he just shipped it inside the jewel box that it would originally come in WRAPPED IN BROWN PAPER! I was in disbelief that anyone would send an amplifier this way. I unwrapped it and hooked up the S44 to wires that were used with the amp it was replacing (which was professionally installed). When it powered up I heard music and it sounded fine except when I would cut the ignition and keep the music on I would hear distortion in the speakers and the buzzing in the amp. I listened longer and when the fan came on there was a ridiculous amount of distortion from the speakers.

I called TRU and spoke with Jon to see if he had any insight to what might be causing the amp to be malfunctioning and he said the it could either be the amp itself or it might be the install. If it was hooked to an OEM head unit the balanced signal might cause an issue with the fan so I should try to ground the RCA's. He said that I could check this buy simply grounding one of the RCAs on the outer part. I tried that and it didn't work.

I contacted DAT about this issue the day that I received the amp and his reply was, "Sounds like a install issue, the amp was flawless . I Would check your wiring and ground, possible RCA issue" and then "I just talked to 2 Master Installers only 50 in the US right now. and also called tech @ Tru Your issue is LOW VOLTAGE, not sure if you have other amps in your install but thats the problem and also be careful my friend also had the same issue happen when he turned the car off and it friend his speakers." I didn't really think this could be the causing the issue. I have installed over a dozen amplifiers and never had issues like this but I thought I should check it out just to make sure. Of course everything was fine with the install and voltage.

I told DAT that everything checked out with the install and voltage and I said that it must be a defective amp so I removed it and put it back in it's box. I said that I should be able to return it for a full refund and he replied that he doesn't accept returns and "that amp was NEW in box." I said that it could look new but do you really know the history of the unit? It's possible that the unit was damaged in the box since the corners were all pushed in so it was probably dropped at some point. After that he told me to "Contact Jon @ Tru and send him the amp, let's see what he says."

I told him that I wasn't happy that he was just leaving it up to me to send it back and he said, "I understand, but you have to see my point also where I sold you a brand NEW unit Tru S44 amp and TRU TECHS triple check all amps before they ship them out. How do I know you didn't screw something up? If you would have taken it to a Reputable shop and have them install it and there was an issue sure, but It's BRAND NEW, and I have no idea what install techniques you used." I replied saying that there were two different amps hooked up to the existing wires and they were fine AND the original one was "professionally" installed but DAT just ignored that and said to send it to Jon @TRU.

As a last ditch effort I wanted to make sure that the balanced signal from my headunit wasn't the issue so I looked for a product that can take a balanced signal and turn it into an unbalanced signal which was the Audio Control Matrix. It took a couple of weeks but I bought one and hooked it up but there was still a lot of noise and buzzing.

Since DAT wanted to see what TRU would say I shipped it (boxed in it's jewel box surrounded by popcorn inside another box) to TRU and they said what I listed above.

Now what do you think is the right thing for an "Approved Vendor" to do?
 

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what proofe do you have that you didn't damage it with the install, and I mean no insult by this but you must have to prove to DAT with out a reasonable doubt that it wasn't caused by the install. were the damaged parts blown from use, or delivery damage or perhaps some sort of physical damage? these are all to be considered.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
No insult taken but do you think the listed issues could have happened in the 4 hours that it took me to contact DAT and let him know the issues? Or is it more likely to have happened in the previous 3 years before I got it?

It certainly could have been damaged by shipping which I pointed out to him especially due to the way the he shipped it. He wouldn't acknowledge the point when I brought it up.
 

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I don't know, ive never gotten anything improperly packed from DAT, he ships UPS lagit too or fedex if i recall he has an account with one of em.

but It could of been DOA, and if so DAT should take care of it.

I must ask thouygh, did he say it needed repairs? perhaps you misread the sale? :\

I might be favoring a refund my self, as much as I do respect DAT, he should take care of you.
 

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I don't know, ive never gotten anything improperly packed from DAT, he ships UPS lagit too or fedex if i recall he has an account with one of em.

but It could of been DOA, and if so DAT should take care of it.

I must ask thouygh, did he say it needed repairs? perhaps you misread the sale? :\

I might be favoring a refund my self, as much as I do respect DAT, he should take care of you.
 

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It is going to be hard to prove this wasn't from an install mishap. DAT is usually spot on with his descriptions and my experience with him has been great. He wouldn't risk his reputation as a seller by selling something as new that wasn't working. It could be that this amp didn't work from day one and since nobody powered it up nobody realized. I feel for you, but a new or used amp with no warranty is always somewhat of a gamble. We have to trust sellers on here to be truthful in their descriptions and I trust DAT to do just that.
 

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DAT is a pretty reputable member here.

I don't know him personally. Do you really want to air out your laundry on the forum like this?

I've had plenty of members here sell me amps, equip, etc. that had problems either beforehand, via shipping, or just plain out shady doushbags. I never aired it publicly on a forum.

Sorry for your experience but I'm just saying...
 

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This post seems a bit hasty.

DAT is a good guy, and a forum member with 200+ positive transactions. You've yet to even hear a reply from him, and have posted about the transaction before exploring a resolution.

I understand the "panic", but at least give the seller a chance to speak with you before taking the issue to the public eye.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. There is no way of knowing, at least outside of the buyer and seller, what brought on the amps problems. Sometimes members sell things for friends on the word that they are "working". A seller should always know their product, but sometimes life gets busy and one slips by us. It's not an excuse, but realize we are all human and capable of mistakes. In the case of someone like DAT, who has such a positive track record, it's likely the latter, or something else altogether, as opposed to being underhanded.

Point is, always try to give the seller time to field your complaint before it hits the forums and is at the mercy of the peanut gallery.

With that said, I do not believe he should issue a FULL refund, as well as incur the fees for the repairs, if the problems were, in fact, present before purchase. If the amp was problematic, he now must give it away for free? Why? For your emotional trauma? That's unreasonable.

If the amp needed repair, I could see the seller covering that cost. That's all. If he stated no returns before the transaction, then that's something you were aware of before purchase. Such is life. I know it can be frustrating, but just don't be so hasty with the "new thread" button before hashing it out with your seller.
 

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DAT is a pretty reputable member here.

I don't know him personally. Do you really want to air out your laundry on the forum like this?

I've had plenty of members here sell me amps, equip, etc. that had problems either beforehand, via shipping, or just plain out shady doushbags. I never aired it publicly on a forum.

Sorry for your experience but I'm just saying...
'air your dirty laundry'...come on. :laugh:

Anyway, the post might be a bit hasty but so what? DAT takes care of the problem and his reputation bounces back no problem.

**** happens. It's car audio, it isn't indestructable. Things break.

It's how sellers handle problems like this that really speaks to their character and can actually work to really strengthen their reputation! Get it??

There's nothing wrong with complaining publically so leave your sucky opinion out of it and let's see what DAT does.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I don't know, ive never gotten anything improperly packed from DAT, he ships UPS lagit too or fedex if i recall he has an account with one of em.

but It could of been DOA, and if so DAT should take care of it.

I must ask thouygh, did he say it needed repairs? perhaps you misread the sale? :\

I might be favoring a refund my self, as much as I do respect DAT, he should take care of you.
I was shocked that it was sent in only the jewel box wrapped in paper but it was. He can come here and dispute that claim if its false. There was no misreading of his post or PMs. I'm not claiming that it wasn't new but it's obviously defective.

What method was used for payment?
Paypal but it's past the dispute date and I don't think that I would have been able to dispute the payment anyway because I did receive the product.

It is going to be hard to prove this wasn't from an install mishap. DAT is usually spot on with his descriptions and my experience with him has been great. He wouldn't risk his reputation as a seller by selling something as new that wasn't working. It could be that this amp didn't work from day one and since nobody powered it up nobody realized. I feel for you, but a new or used amp with no warranty is always somewhat of a gamble. We have to trust sellers on here to be truthful in their descriptions and I trust DAT to do just that.
Of course it would be hard to prove that is was or was not an install mishap but I think that with the time that I had it and the poor packaging combined with the age of the unit would say it was more likely from before I got it.

The amp could have been defective from day one but he sold me one that he said works and it doesn't.

I asked him if his reputation was worth this and he didn't respond to it.


DAT is a pretty reputable member here.

I don't know him personally. Do you really want to air out your laundry on the forum like this?

I've had plenty of members here sell me amps, equip, etc. that had problems either beforehand, via shipping, or just plain out shady doushbags. I never aired it publicly on a forum.

Sorry for your experience but I'm just saying...
I certainly did not want to air this out on here but it became my ONLY option since he wouldn't reply to me. I wanted to make sure that there was a problem with the amp before posting here and I also gave him the chance to work it out but he wasn't replying. If it were you would you have just let it go?

He has the opportunity right now to make this right. It's really up to him.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
This post seems a bit hasty.

DAT is a good guy, and a forum member with 200+ positive transactions. You've yet to even hear a reply from him, and have posted about the transaction before exploring a resolution.

I understand the "panic", but at least give the seller a chance to speak with you before taking the issue to the public eye.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong. There is no way of knowing, at least outside of the buyer and seller, what brought on the amps problems. Sometimes members sell things for friends on the word that they are "working". A seller should always know their product, but sometimes life gets busy and one slips by us. It's not an excuse, but realize we are all human and capable of mistakes. In the case of someone like DAT, who has such a positive track record, it's likely the latter, or something else altogether, as opposed to being underhanded.

Point is, always try to give the seller time to field your complaint before it hits the forums and is at the mercy of the peanut gallery.

With that said, I do not believe he should issue a FULL refund, as well as incur the fees for the repairs, if the problems were, in fact, present before purchase. If the amp was problematic, he now must give it away for free? Why? For your emotional trauma? That's unreasonable.

If the amp needed repair, I could see the seller covering that cost. That's all. If he stated no returns before the transaction, then that's something you were aware of before purchase. Such is life. I know it can be frustrating, but just don't be so hasty with the "new thread" button before hashing it out with your seller.
If DAT wanted to he could have just made a quick reply to my PM and said I'll take care of this just give me time to come up with a resolution...but he didn't. He still can just come here or PM me and say that but I felt that he wasn't going to do anything unless prompted by this thread.

Yes I think that he should issue a full refund and take the amp back. I'm not saying that he should give a full refund and I'll keep the amp. I paid a premium for the amp because it was new and supposedly working and it's not working. He should be able to take this up with whoever he got it from and not just leave it to me.

He said that he doesn't accept returns AFTER the problem was reported to him. I get that it's a chance you take when buying used gear but I took his word that it was in working condition.
 

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If DAT wanted to he could have just made a quick reply to my PM and said I'll take care of this just give me time to come up with a resolution...but he didn't. He still can just come here or PM me and say that but I felt that he wasn't going to do anything unless prompted by this thread.

Yes I think that he should issue a full refund and take the amp back. I'm not saying that he should give a full refund and I'll keep the amp. I paid a premium for the amp because it was new and supposedly working and it's not working. He should be able to take this up with whoever he got it from and not just leave it to me.

He said that he doesn't accept returns AFTER the problem was reported to him. I get that it's a chance you take when buying used gear but I took his word that it was in working condition.
Gotcha. Maybe I was a little fuzzy on certain details.

There will always be unsolved variables in a situation like this. "New" cannot be proven. Whether or not the amp was tested before shipment cannot be proven. All we can hope for is that the situation can be resolved amicably.
 

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wasn't there another complaint aboot the seller in question a while back where someone also posted a thread somewhat similar to this? from what i remember about that situation was that it was like pulling teeth for the buyer to get most of his initial purchase price refunded.

i think that was right around the time people were complaining that he wasn't an "authorized vendor" or something and always had stuff for sale.

i think it was something about a massive amp and/or the sub control. someone search perhaps?
 

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In all fairness to DAT he has yet to respond to my PM containing the list of issues but he has posted since I sent the PM yesterday, including a new thread in the classified section. Since he's working deals I'm sure he's read my PM.

The short story:

I bought a TRU S44 from DAT that he said was "new and will work." As soon as I installed it the amp was noisy both from the speakers AND from the amp itself. After several PMs back and forth DAT said, "Contact Jon @ TRU and send him the amp, let's see what he says." Yesterday I got a call from Jon at TRU and he said that the amp has several problems:

1. Channel C&D have high distortion
2. The fan circuit is causing noise
3. Transformer is buzzing
4. The power supply needs to be upgraded

It's going to cost $150-$250 for the repair.

From our previous PMs he said that he does not accept returns. I feel that he should give me a FULL refund including the costs incurred to send it to TRU. He said the product was "new and will work" but it doesn't.

I'm hoping I'll get a reply from DAT saying that he'll give me a refund as requested. Prior to sending it to TRU I told him he should be a stand up seller and take the amp back so he doesn't tarnish his name. I hope that he does the right thing.

The whole story goes like this:

He listed the amp as "open box" and when I PM'd him about it he said, "it was a open box, never connected to power. Not a return. I got it form a dealer in Hawaii. no warranty, its new and will work."

I decided that it would be worth picking this up and DATs selling history seemed to be good.

When I received the amp I was surprised that he just shipped it inside the jewel box that it would originally come in WRAPPED IN BROWN PAPER! I was in disbelief that anyone would send an amplifier this way. I unwrapped it and hooked up the S44 to wires that were used with the amp it was replacing (which was professionally installed). When it powered up I heard music and it sounded fine except when I would cut the ignition and keep the music on I would hear distortion in the speakers and the buzzing in the amp. I listened longer and when the fan came on there was a ridiculous amount of distortion from the speakers.

I called TRU and spoke with Jon to see if he had any insight to what might be causing the amp to be malfunctioning and he said the it could either be the amp itself or it might be the install. If it was hooked to an OEM head unit the balanced signal might cause an issue with the fan so I should try to ground the RCA's. He said that I could check this buy simply grounding one of the RCAs on the outer part. I tried that and it didn't work.

I contacted DAT about this issue the day that I received the amp and his reply was, "Sounds like a install issue, the amp was flawless . I Would check your wiring and ground, possible RCA issue" and then "I just talked to 2 Master Installers only 50 in the US right now. and also called tech @ Tru Your issue is LOW VOLTAGE, not sure if you have other amps in your install but thats the problem and also be careful my friend also had the same issue happen when he turned the car off and it friend his speakers." I didn't really think this could be the causing the issue. I have installed over a dozen amplifiers and never had issues like this but I thought I should check it out just to make sure. Of course everything was fine with the install and voltage.

I told DAT that everything checked out with the install and voltage and I said that it must be a defective amp so I removed it and put it back in it's box. I said that I should be able to return it for a full refund and he replied that he doesn't accept returns and "that amp was NEW in box." I said that it could look new but do you really know the history of the unit? It's possible that the unit was damaged in the box since the corners were all pushed in so it was probably dropped at some point. After that he told me to "Contact Jon @ Tru and send him the amp, let's see what he says."

I told him that I wasn't happy that he was just leaving it up to me to send it back and he said, "I understand, but you have to see my point also where I sold you a brand NEW unit Tru S44 amp and TRU TECHS triple check all amps before they ship them out. How do I know you didn't screw something up? If you would have taken it to a Reputable shop and have them install it and there was an issue sure, but It's BRAND NEW, and I have no idea what install techniques you used." I replied saying that there were two different amps hooked up to the existing wires and they were fine AND the original one was "professionally" installed but DAT just ignored that and said to send it to Jon @TRU.

As a last ditch effort I wanted to make sure that the balanced signal from my headunit wasn't the issue so I looked for a product that can take a balanced signal and turn it into an unbalanced signal which was the Audio Control Matrix. It took a couple of weeks but I bought one and hooked it up but there was still a lot of noise and buzzing.

Since DAT wanted to see what TRU would say I shipped it (boxed in it's jewel box surrounded by popcorn inside another box) to TRU and they said what I listed above.

Now what do you think is the right thing for an "Approved Vendor" to do?


Ok, I waiting for a reply email back from the original owner, he will also back me up that it was never installed or used.

Tru is a well know car amplifier designer, they are very strict on quality and control. Even if the amp is back stock and never used there should be ZERO issues.

I have a problem with the return call back from Jon @ Tru. He would have to be more detailed with his explanation of his Tech's findings.

1. Channel C&D have high distortion Why what caused this?
2. The fan circuit is causing noise - It's a NEW fan NEW AMP.
3. Transformer is buzzing - What caused this?
4. The power supply needs to be upgraded Why it's a NEW AMP?


Wiring a amp to factory Hu and then amp works when you you have car started and makes noise with the car off is kinda fishy to me..

It's going to cost $150-$250 for the repair. Jon trying to Up Sell a Repair is what others are telling me. Not saying his tech is doing this but look at the big picture.

I'm willing to help , at cost to me. But you would have to swing the other amount. I'll refund you a $100


I told you before you bought the amp and it's also in my Signature from early this year. No Returns, NO refunds, I would not have sold the amp if it had a issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Ok, I waiting for a reply email back from the original owner, he will also back me up that it was never installed or used.

Tru is a well know car amplifier designer, they are very strict on quality and control. Even if the amp is back stock and never used there should be ZERO issues.

I have a problem with the return call back from Jon @ Tru. He would have to be more detailed with his explanation of his Tech's findings.

1. Channel C&D have high distortion Why what caused this?
2. The fan circuit is causing noise - It's a NEW fan NEW AMP.
3. Transformer is buzzing - What caused this?
4. The power supply needs to be upgraded Why it's a NEW AMP?


Wiring a amp to factory Hu and then amp works when you you have car started and makes noise with the car off is kinda fishy to me..

It's going to cost $150-$250 for the repair. Jon trying to Up Sell a Repair is what others are telling me. Not saying his tech is doing this but look at the big picture.

I'm willing to help , at cost to me. But you would have to swing the other amount. I'll refund you a $100


I told you before you bought the amp and it's also in my Signature from early this year. No Returns, NO refunds, I would not have sold the amp if it had a issue.
I'm glad to see you replied to try and work this out.

Whether you thought the amp was new isn't what I question. It's that the amp was not working properly when I got it like I was told it to be. I don't know at what point it was damaged but it was. Sending it without extra packaging could not have helped. Why did you not package it properly?

TRU has strict quality controls but no one is perfect.

Perhaps the bad power supply is what was causing the distortion when the ignition was cut. That was my whole point that the amp was defective. Here is what I asked him and his reply in parentheses:

Is the power supply upgrade something defective in the amp or is it
something that was done to all the S44s that came in?
(Certain amps needed this upgrade. Your needs it.
It may have been covered under original warranty.
We say "May have" because this product is now used).

As for the other issues he said anything could have happened since the amp was sold.


This is the signature line from the ad which matches it in your PMs:

Massive Audio ,MOREL , SINFONI , AMERICAN BASS , IXOS , JBL , AND MANY OTHERS
-DAT Sale Rules: *If your new to DIYMA* No dibs - you pay, you get * No return of your money b/c you changed your mind * * Local Sales only on Sinfoni, Morel, and other protected Lines * *

It says "No return of your money b/c you changed your mind" which isn't the case here. I don't believe you ever said that there were no returns (Even if it did this was a case where the product was not as described). I just went through our PMs and it's not there. If it was in your signature line from earlier in the year why would that matter when we did the transaction since it wasn't there?

What is the history of this amp? Was the dealer you got it from an old TRU dealer or did he get it from somewhere else?

I'm glad you're willing to help me out but you should be taking the amp back.
 
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