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Discussion Starter #1
I finally got some free time to do my sub install in my truck this past weekend and already I think I've got a problem with it. The sub is a Dayton HO 10" powered by an old Hifonics Brutus bx1205d amp in a sealed enclosure under one of the rear seats (.75 cuft I believe).

I played the sub for a few days at low levels to break it in and yesterday I decided I'd turn up the gain and see what the sub is capable of output-wise. With minimal gain and medium volume, the sub now makes a noise as if it were clipping (instead of producing clean bass I hear mechanical slapping sounds or a "wet fart" sound as I've heard someone describe it). Based on the power rating of the sub and the fact that the amp only produces something like 450W at 4ohms I'm surprised that the sub seems to "tap out" so early.

My question to you guys is whether I'm simply asking more of the sub than it is capable of doing output-wise or whether there is an issue with the sub itself.
 

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At .75 cubes you're on the very large side of it's sealed spectrum which reduces power handling greatly! Optimum sealed is around .4 cubes which brings the box Q down to .628! Your box/sub Qtc is probably around less than around .5 which drops mechanical handling like a brick below 50hz. Around 45hz at your box size it will only handle around 230 watts continuous. They are durable subs but they don't like gobs of power even in medium sized boxes. They are an incredible micro box sub depending on vehicle. That's why most port them later on. I still run my pair sealed in a box about your size and they handle a BP1200.1 just fine (tuned for SQ that is).

Time for a redo or re-tune before you damage something...
 

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I've had bad luck with Dayton stuff making noise this year, too. Got a couple of 12"s that need to go back, and possibly some RS180s.
 

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The only problem I've had is the RS180's breakup nodes and having to cross them higher than wanted (100hz). Have to dump a good amount of upper midbass to lower midrange for them to play clean at upper levels. HO 10" no problem at all, but I run pairs while most use singles. Before when I ran a single there was slight rattles at extremely low frequencies every once in a while on a bass track. Yet, in a 1st gen S10 everything rattles in the back easily so I wasn't sure if it was the sub or an adjacent panel. Don't play much techno bass anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
At .75 cubes you're on the very large side of it's sealed spectrum which reduces power handling greatly! Optimum sealed is around .4 cubes which brings the box Q down to .628! Your box/sub Qtc is probably around less than around .5 which drops mechanical handling like a brick below 50hz. Around 45hz at your box size it will only handle around 230 watts continuous. They are durable subs but they don't like gobs of power even in medium sized boxes. They are an incredible micro box sub depending on vehicle. That's why most port them later on. I still run my pair sealed in a box about your size and they handle a BP1200.1 just fine (tuned for SQ that is).

Time for a redo or re-tune before you damage something...
So based on what you're telling me here, I could hypothetically put some clay or some bags of sand in my box to reduce the free area and it would resolve this issue? I also recall that before I purchased this particular sub I read the thread about them and I thought I recalled someone saying that they would work fine in an enclosure all the way up to 1cuft.

Maybe I'm just expecting more output from one 10" sub than it can deliver. I've always had at a minimum two 12's in my past vehicles, but back then I used to care more about output than SQ. Now I was hoping to get SQ with a decent amount of output from the Dayton sub but the amount of output seems so minimal that it doesn't even begin to keep up with my mids and highs. Does anyone have a recommendation for a 10" sub that may put a smile on my face or do I need to realistically look at adding another 10 under my other rear seat (I'd prefer not to)?
 

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If anyone used the HO 10" in up to a 1 cube sealed, they had better know what they were doing! There's no need for that size even ported.... Any way what I would do is reduce the interior of the box with some solid material (wood blocks or bags of sand like mentioned would work if you can guarantee the bag is leak proof. Get the enclosure size down to around half of where it's at now and you should see quite a bit of change in handling.

As far as response.... that may be something you will have to work on since you are used to SPL rigs. It takes a trained ear to appreciate SQ in my opinion and that is what you may have to do. Retrain your tastes to appreciate the different aspects SQ has compared to SPL. Not to say the HO is the best SQ sub, for some will disagree. Yet, I've had minimal complaints within my install with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
If anyone used the HO 10" in up to a 1 cube sealed, they had better know what they were doing! There's no need for that size even ported.... Any way what I would do is reduce the interior of the box with some solid material (wood blocks or bags of sand like mentioned would work if you can guarantee the bag is leak proof. Get the enclosure size down to around half of where it's at now and you should see quite a bit of change in handling.

As far as response.... that may be something you will have to work on since you are used to SPL rigs. It takes a trained ear to appreciate SQ in my opinion and that is what you may have to do. Retrain your tastes to appreciate the different aspects SQ has compared to SPL. Not to say the HO is the best SQ sub, for some will disagree. Yet, I've had minimal complaints within my install with it.
I'll try adding some wood blocks and see what happens. At the end of the day, I'm not looking for the thing to shake my mirrors or anything but I do want to be able to turn up my music and still hear it without the thing sounding like it's begging for mercy. Frankly I'm a little disappointed overall as I half expected that this sub would deliver more output than I would even want and I'd have to tame it a bit rather than have it leaving me wanting more.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
You have the box built with the right dimensions, why not just cut a hole and use an aeroport (or PVC) to port the box?
I'm not very experienced with building my own ported boxes or porting an existing box for that matter. I just wouldn't want to ruin a perfectly good box.

What size pipe would I want to use, how long, etc?

Below is a link of the box I have: (I'm using the passenger side only which is the smaller of the two pieces)
Dodge Ram 02-10 Quad Cab Sub Box Enclosure Dual 10 - 2X10DODGE-09-QUAD
 

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With the sealed box, diisplacement is all that matters for SPL. You can put it in a smaller box which will require more power to get to max excursion where you're at now but you're not solving anything, you're just making it more power hungry.

The catch is you can get more output in the upper frequencies since you will be able to feed it more power without bottoming in the lower frequencies. Maximum low frequency output will remain unchanged with the small box, but you will need more power to get what you already have.

You can always use a subsonic filter to simulate a smaller box and keep the box you have for a more power efficient system.
 

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If that is the case that low end is suffering quite a bit regardless of increasing or decreasing box size.... sounds like a major dip to me. If so porting may help, but you will still have the dip. What kind of music do you listen to and eq power do you have?

Why not use a pair of subs since you have a dual enclosure. Plenty of subs on the market that can utilize 450 rms for a pair and require around .70 cubes. As long as it's not a boomy sub you can tune it to make it geared towards SQ. If that's what it takes, then that's what it takes. You could probably sell the HO to go towards another set.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If that is the case that low end is suffering quite a bit regardless of increasing or decreasing box size.... sounds like a major dip to me. If so porting may help, but you will still have the dip. What kind of music do you listen to and eq power do you have?

Why not use a pair of subs since you have a dual enclosure. Plenty of subs on the market that can utilize 450 rms for a pair and require around .70 cubes. As long as it's not a boomy sub you can tune it to make it geared towards SQ. If that's what it takes, then that's what it takes. You could probably sell the HO to go towards another set.
The main issue really is space and convenience. The only real storage I have inside of my truck is under the rear seats, so I wanted to keep one side open for storage and thus my preference for using only one 10.

I listen to pretty much everything except classical, jazz, etc. Rock, country, hip-hop, etc I listen to often. Eq power is limited to the stock touchscreen head unit in the truck unfortunately. My goal when I started the install on this truck was to do a concealed budget SQ build. I feel like I've got the mids and highs pretty well ironed out and if I can get the sub stage where I want it I'll be really happy.

Should I maybe consider just going to a different sub and tame it back a bit? Something like a JL 10W3v3-4 possibly?
 

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you may be getting cancellation at your ear level?

try moving the sub/box around in the cabin on a long wire and listen to it in several different positions, if it still doesnt satisfy you may need a different driver (or port the dayton?)
 

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To be honest, you probably need to play around with winisd. Toss in some targeted subs and see which ones will have the most output in the range you want. The HO's are SQ subs indeed, but not that favorable to most in a sealed cabinet. To me and a few they're just fine although I don't like their thirst for power and that's the only turn off I have with them.

However, I will admit they are probably better in a smaller vehicles where they will couple better with the acoustics. Didn't realize until your post linking the box you have that you were driving a fairly big truck and I think that may be the problem. You simply need a sub with more output and the HO is not that. It's power handling is simply to make up for the very small enclosure it requires with a relatively low F3hz, but lacks efficiency.

Hoffman's Iron Law is the culprit here and when you find him, bop him over the head for me! You can only have 2 out of the 3: loud, low, & small. The HO is designed for small enclosures & low roll-off, but not loud unless you break the law and go ported. Like it was stated earlier, with that size box you could port it and gain at least another 3db, but the port will be cumbersome (very long!). There's a good thread about it on here somewhere. Personally I'd ditch the HO and pick another sub.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
To be honest, you probably need to play around with winisd. Toss in some targeted subs and see which ones will have the most output in the range you want. The HO's are SQ subs indeed, but not that favorable to most in a sealed cabinet. To me and a few they're just fine although I don't like their thirst for power and that's the only turn off I have with them.

However, I will admit they are probably better in a smaller vehicles where they will couple better with the acoustics. Didn't realize until your post linking the box you have that you were driving a fairly big truck and I think that may be the problem. You simply need a sub with more output and the HO is not that. It's power handling is simply to make up for the very small enclosure it requires with a relatively low F3hz, but lacks efficiency.

Hoffman's Iron Law is the culprit here and when you find him, bop him over the head for me! You can only have 2 out of the 3: loud, low, & small. The HO is designed for small enclosures & low roll-off, but not loud unless you break the law and go ported. Like it was stated earlier, with that size box you could port it and gain at least another 3db, but the port will be cumbersome (very long!). There's a good thread about it on here somewhere. Personally I'd ditch the HO and pick another sub.
I think you're probably on the mark with your statements above. Got a sub recommendation for me based on what you know about my setup and goal now?
 

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If you can find one, diamond audio MD10 or 12 will fit your space just fine. Actually i'm using an older diamond M5 ported around .85 in my NBS 2011 GMC crew with great results.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I have another observation that may or may not help shine some light on what is actually going on with my sub...

As I turned up the volume today and looked at the actual excursion of the sub at the point where the sub goes from producing clean bass to horrible slapping sounds, the sub actually sucked inwards toward the coil (or didn't move at all, kind of hard to tell) rather than moving outward with the bass. Does this help anyone with a diagnosis?

The more that I read reviews of this sub it seems that everyone claims that you can throw lots of power at them and they never complain a bit, but that is the opposite of the experience I'm having. I keep wondering if something else is going on here...
 

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There's a plethora of quality subs out there to choose from, but as for me making a suggestion when you already have one of the top choices... well it would be hard to say. For one thing I would opt for one that has a higher Qtc in that same box. The Q is entirely too low for it handle power properly. Obviously you need something a little more robust in response since you are leaving it up to a single 10" in a big crew cab. It won't necessarily mean more excursion, but more solid output in a medium size box.

As for the sub sucking in when you start to reach for more volume... that's odd. I remember it only happening once before in one of my installs and at this point the memory is vague. I do believe I came to the conclusion there was a problem with the amp or wiring like it went into a hard clipping with the cone barely moving. Been so long ago that I can't be sure, but your situation doesn't sound right. Perhaps one of the pros will chime in...
 

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I have another observation that may or may not help shine some light on what is actually going on with my sub...

As I turned up the volume today and looked at the actual excursion of the sub at the point where the sub goes from producing clean bass to horrible slapping sounds, the sub actually sucked inwards toward the coil (or didn't move at all, kind of hard to tell) rather than moving outward with the bass. Does this help anyone with a diagnosis?

The more that I read reviews of this sub it seems that everyone claims that you can throw lots of power at them and they never complain a bit, but that is the opposite of the experience I'm having. I keep wondering if something else is going on here...
Amp or wiring problem. You'll probably be happy with the sub you have once you get it figured out.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Amp or wiring problem. You'll probably be happy with the sub you have once you get it figured out.
I don't think you're correct on this because I threw the box from my last car in the back seat of my truck with two 12's and hooked up one of them and it played fine at all volume levels. I'm still thinking it's a box/speaker issue but who knows.

I let the amp sit and collect dust for the better part of a year and a half and the remote bass knob doesn't work on it any more, so maybe there's an issue with the amp that I'm not aware of...
 
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