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Whats the best way to set the output level and mic gain? Am I looking to have it as loud as I normally listen and then set mic gain to compensate?
Mic gain at 0 or below

And output gain at about -40 or so ,

On the next screen when you take measurements you want the audio seismic graph to be about 1/2 to 3/4 full of audio signal.

You do t want itty bitty little traces of audio in that.

You want the measurements to be fairly loud tho , about 95db or so
Not screaming loud but fairly loud.

After calibration on screen you put filters into go shrewd and max out the output there and leave it
I'm having a hard time getting my measurement below 0db. Even without the sub my midbass goes above 0 dB. I assume that's okay as long as I'm not boosting anything. My biggest problem is getting enough output after doing it. My gains are set pretty high from when I was doing allot of eq work with the Helix. Is the 0db line on the Dirac just a reference. I notice when I run each measurement it's at like - 10 on the highest peak. But when going to the filter screen the midbass section of my graph is +5 to +10. So I feel like I have to cut a ton to not get any clipping inside the unit.

After I run the Dirac I go back to the ddrc 24s program and turn output volume back to 0.
 

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Discussion Starter #62
I'm having a hard time getting my measurement below 0db. Even without the sub my midbass goes above 0 dB. I assume that's okay as long as I'm not boosting anything. My biggest problem is getting enough output after doing it. My gains are set pretty high from when I was doing allot of eq work with the Helix. Is the 0db line on the Dirac just a reference. I notice when I run each measurement it's at like - 10 on the highest peak. But when going to the filter screen the midbass section of my graph is +5 to +10. So I feel like I have to cut a ton to not get any clipping inside the unit.

After I run the Dirac I go back to the ddrc 24s program and turn output volume back to 0.


You measurements will always be centered on the 0db line

It’s a artificial line. It means nothing to real spl

You could take you measurements at -70db and would still show centered


Your target should just hug the bottom crest of the measurement. So it’s only boosting a tiny bit into the deep nulls and has the most gain possible.

At some point your going to want the gains on amps a certain way so the end result gives the amps good power and a linear power distribution

As long as the target isn’t 5 dB above or higher any of the deepest dips it should sound just fine.
 

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Got it. That helps allot. I was trying to get the whole target below the 0db line. So as long as I'm not boosting anything crazy I'm good. Thanks again man.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
Got it. That helps allot. I was trying to get the whole target below the 0db line. So as long as I'm not boosting anything crazy I'm good. Thanks again man.


Yeah I usually start with 20hz at the 0db line than my targets starts it’s downhill
Decent to 20k and is usually about exactly -10db at 20k

My bass is the steepest to 150hz than almost completely flat after that to 1k than a small tilt to 20k
 

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Got it. That helps allot. I was trying to get the whole target below the 0db line. So as long as I'm not boosting anything crazy I'm good. Thanks again man.


Yeah I usually start with 20hz at the 0db line than my targets starts it’s downhill
Decent to 20k and is usually about exactly -10db at 20k

My bass is the steepest to 150hz than almost completely flat after that to 1k than a small tilt to 20k
I'll give that 1 a try after trying to align my sub to midbass more. I have a pretty big dip at 60.
 

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Discussion Starter #66
I took my ddrc22d out

I’m now running a ddrc24 on 2118h midrange and ES full size horns

Than 2 2x4hds in 2x2 mode one in sundown 18 and one on 6nd430s


I’m starting to be able to beat Dirac with rephase and my own fir on midbass and sub. Getting better results more tailored for my car and my setup ,
I still can’t beat 2.0 on midrange and highs. But I’m not trying to it’s sooo dam good.


Finally got a problem nailed down in Dirac I’ve been fighting for a long time tonight,

I have “bold” always “unbold” had to turn down my left side to -4db for the center to come in and not too loud on left


I tryed using 48db filters on midrange and 24db filter on horn
And this time I pre set my delays (which I haven’t done because it seemed to make it worse.

I listens to “drive-in” by Adam ragsdale full tilt balls to the wall on a late night drive and the 2.0 really came out and was just dead on.

Had it so loud I could smell the old paper from the 2118h vibrating (smells like stale cardboard) just had it jammin , no break up, stage stable , no distortion, and the really hard midbass notes and bass notes in that track just work now.


Super pleased , 2.0 really brings out the detail . Big time
 

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Hey guys just wanted to add something here, hope this helps.

First this "pre-tune" technique is all Oab's idea!! I just implemented it and documented it here. :laugh:

So I wanted to get as good pre-tune as possible with my DDRC-24 before my Helix P6. First thing i did of course was set my XO's on the Helix with rough levels set by ear.
Then ALL the rest of the work was done by the DDRC! To setup basic TA, I used the DDRC setup as follows:

Setup the routing on the Helix so the Left channel was setup for SUB, and Right was Right Midbass.

Go through the process of measurements using only the first MP spot. Click to the end (ignoring the warning) and export the results to a memory bank, say #4. Connect back to the DDRC and notice the levels and TA for Ch1 vs 2. Set TA accordingly for the MB (Ch2) on the Helix.
Measure again and most of the time it should be perfect the first time.
Next set SUB to R channel and Left MB to L channel. Same procedure and then set final TA on L MB. Run again until perfect.
Now set L MB to Ch1 and R MB to Ch2 (normal setup) and verify levels. TA should be pretty close or perfect between the MB at this point. If its off, I did not change things here.
Set levels on the DSP accordingly. Run again to verify. Should be close to perfect, but a tiny bit off is not a big deal.

Then setup the next group MB/MR on each side: L side inputs for L MR and R side inputs for L MB for example. Test and adjust.
Once done verify L and R MR and set levels accordingly.

Next is MR/Tweet the same way, then verify L/R for level matching.

Once I was done with this with NO EQ on the DSP at all, imaging was very good and centered, bass/midbass was up on the dash and sounded really good! I was never able to get tape measure TA this good and I think this method gets really complicated with SUB's in the mix from what I can tell.

So this should net a nice repeatable process with very good TA, adjusted levels and overall great pre-tune to have before running Dirac!!

Tuning Process​

MEASURE EACH DRIVER TO ESTABLISH PROPER XO(on Helix or other DSP)

TIME ALIGN EACH DRIVER USING MEASURING TAPE(on Helix or other DSP)

*optional*USE NULLING TECHNIQUE (Drop1’s METHOD)(on Helix or Other DSP)
I recently started doing this to fine tune T/A or phase. I perform it within each like pair of drivers first, then perform it again with like pairs against other like pairs. I use the front mid-bass drivers as the anchor for the system. I inverse polarity on the midranges and alter delay (been playing around with the method by either altering T/A or altering phase) until tones are most out of phase then flip midranges polarity back to normal. Next is to proceed to do the same thing except this time with midranges anchoring against the tweeters. I invert polarity on the tweeters and alter delay until tones are most out of phase then flip tweeters polarity back to normal. Lastly perform this step again with midbass as the anchor against rear fill drivers and subwoofers.
I'm curious to know also. I orderes the ddrc 24 and the DC isolator. Mostly because it has a turn on wire so I wouldnt need to wire up a relay.
So I ended up purchasing a DROK and it works great and looks really nice too!! This is if you already have a relay as it does not have rem in.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JZ2GQJF

If you have a null in the 65-110hz range like most ppl do
The sub is going to be used to fill some of that null

Depending on how much sub you give it when you run DLCT will also be how much eq and stuff is put on that null.

Meaning; if you have a hole at 75hz that’s 10db deep and your crossover is at 80hz and run DLCT it’s goung to use the sub response to fill that hole

If you have the sub up quite a bit it will apply less eq to that hole
If you have the sub down it may apply a lot of eq to that hole

You have to find the spot that makes it to where the system isn’t using all its available power to fill a 10hz bandwidth null.

Or after DLCT you can make a V in the target over that hole and stop it from trying to boost too much

Or after DLCT you can go to your sub and midbass and define a peq to cut that if you only want to do it to one speaker. Like if the midbass sounds bad with that much boost but the sub is fine you can park a peq that cuts that out of the midbass only over that hole.


So a couple things to do after DLCT and before to plan your crossovers , and overall volume of the system so your not running anything into distortion
And getting the bass response you like to hear
For now I ended up putting that V in the target curve until I can figure out something better!

Yeah I usually start with 20hz at the 0db line than my targets starts it’s downhill
Decent to 20k and is usually about exactly -10db at 20k

My bass is the steepest to 150hz than almost completely flat after that to 1k than a small tilt to 20k
So I think it would be nice if we can share our house curves for Dirac. I know its simple to create them, but at least the one I tried did not work right. Either way maybe we can post some of them here? I also setup my low end starting at 20Hz at 0 and down from there.
 

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Discussion Starter #68
Hey guys just wanted to add something here, hope this helps.

First this "pre-tune" technique is all Oab's idea!! I just implemented it and documented it here. :laugh:

So I wanted to get as good pre-tune as possible with my DDRC-24 before my Helix P6. First thing i did of course was set my XO's on the Helix with rough levels set by ear.
Then ALL the rest of the work was done by the DDRC! To setup basic TA, I used the DDRC setup as follows:

Setup the routing on the Helix so the Left channel was setup for SUB, and Right was Right Midbass.

Go through the process of measurements using only the first MP spot. Click to the end (ignoring the warning) and export the results to a memory bank, say #4. Connect back to the DDRC and notice the levels and TA for Ch1 vs 2. Set TA accordingly for the MB (Ch2) on the Helix.
Measure again and most of the time it should be perfect the first time.
Next set SUB to R channel and Left MB to L channel. Same procedure and then set final TA on L MB. Run again until perfect.
Now set L MB to Ch1 and R MB to Ch2 (normal setup) and verify levels. TA should be pretty close or perfect between the MB at this point. If its off, I did not change things here.
Set levels on the DSP accordingly. Run again to verify. Should be close to perfect, but a tiny bit off is not a big deal.

Then setup the next group MB/MR on each side: L side inputs for L MR and R side inputs for L MB for example. Test and adjust.
Once done verify L and R MR and set levels accordingly.

Next is MR/Tweet the same way, then verify L/R for level matching.

Once I was done with this with NO EQ on the DSP at all, imaging was very good and centered, bass/midbass was up on the dash and sounded really good! I was never able to get tape measure TA this good and I think this method gets really complicated with SUB's in the mix from what I can tell.

So this should net a nice repeatable process with very good TA, adjusted levels and overall great pre-tune to have before running Dirac!!



So I ended up purchasing a DROK and it works great and looks really nice too!! This is if you already have a relay as it does not have rem in.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JZ2GQJF



For now I ended up putting that V in the target curve until I can figure out something better!




So I think it would be nice if we can share our house curves for Dirac. I know its simple to create them, but at least the one I tried did not work right. Either way maybe we can post some of them here? I also setup my low end starting at 20Hz at 0 and down from there.


That’s awesome

And for anyone that wants to try it
You can burn through all measurements with mic in 1st measurement location as your just getting levels and ta

Thanks for posting this. Can’t wait to hear what you think, I’ve been very happy with defaulted target in 2.0 , very intuitive. I’ll have a try a few others

You should make a thread where we can share targets
 

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I’ll try n sneak some time this weekend to give this a go too!

For now I ended up putting that V in the target curve until I can figure out something better!

So I think it would be nice if we can share our house curves for Dirac. I know its simple to create them, but at least the one I tried did not work right. Either way maybe we can post some of them here? I also setup my low end starting at 20Hz at 0 and down from there.
I’m curious for poeple’s house curves as well. So far I’ve been sticking one similar to this but with 20Hz starting @ 0db:
 

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Discussion Starter #70
I’ll try n sneak some time this weekend to give this a go too!



I’m curious for poeple’s house curves as well. So far I’ve been sticking one similar to this but with 20Hz starting @ 0db:


That shape at your low end is very smart , a lot of the home guys do that and it works excellent, try a small dip at 2.5k for car and it’s even better.

That curve looks nice!!
 

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That shape at your low end is very smart , a lot of the home guys do that and it works excellent, try a small dip at 2.5k for car and it’s even better.

That curve looks nice!!
Nice, I was about to post my curve as I had to upload it from Laptop. I did exactly that! :D

I finally was able to modify the text files. I think there was an issue with the way i was saving it. Seems to work now.

 

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Discussion Starter #73 (Edited)
Nice, I was about to post my curve as I had to upload it from Laptop. I did exactly that! :D

I finally was able to modify the text files. I think there was an issue with the way i was saving it. Seems to work now.


THats my flav for sure

IVE been doing some serious studying lately
And the ear processes 2.5k very very fast when there’s glass nearby.

Been learning how the ear processing works

Come to find out using signal delay on subs against midbass is a bad idea (another story for another time)

However Dirac accounts for this windowing effect in stages so it’s okay there , anyways....
Dropping 2.5k will surly move stage back


Also if your sealed box that low end is ok

If ported , I would try round off the response like bnlcmbr (sp...?? Sorry autosp)
Even having the 20-30hz range slightly shelved can make the bass way tighter and not sacrificing much, however with sealed it should be plenty transient to keep it sounding good if your Q is high enough. (.6-.9 ish range)
 

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As far as my SUB, its a 15" IDMAX ported through ski-pass as "IB". I just looked at my Dirac response again and yea it does appear to drop off right around 25Hz, so I probably need to adjust that some.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
As far as my SUB, its a 15" IDMAX ported through ski-pass as "IB". I just looked at my Dirac response again and yea it does appear to drop off right around 25Hz, so I probably need to adjust that some.

Oh man IB should play down to the teens or lower almost to DC lol


IB plays lower than anything. You should be good man, I would just listen for popping from suspension and adjust accordingly.

I remember your car now! :p
 

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Setup the routing on the Helix so the Left channel was setup for SUB, and Right was Right Midbass.

Go through the process of measurements using only the first MP spot. Click to the end (ignoring the warning) and export the results to a memory bank, say #4. Connect back to the DDRC and notice the levels and TA for Ch1 vs 2. Set TA accordingly for the MB (Ch2) on the Helix.
Measure again and most of the time it should be perfect the first time.
Next set SUB to R channel and Left MB to L channel. Same procedure and then set final TA on L MB. Run again until perfect.
Now set L MB to Ch1 and R MB to Ch2 (normal setup) and verify levels. TA should be pretty close or perfect between the MB at this point. If its off, I did not change things here.
Set levels on the DSP accordingly. Run again to verify. Should be close to perfect, but a tiny bit off is not a big deal.

Then setup the next group MB/MR on each side: L side inputs for L MR and R side inputs for L MB for example. Test and adjust.
Once done verify L and R MR and set levels accordingly.

Next is MR/Tweet the same way, then verify L/R for level matching.

Once I was done with this with NO EQ on the DSP at all, imaging was very good and centered, bass/midbass was up on the dash and sounded really good! I was never able to get tape measure TA this good and I think this method gets really complicated with SUB's in the mix from what I can tell.

So this should net a nice repeatable process with very good TA, adjusted levels and overall great pre-tune to have before running Dirac!!
I'm trying to understand this process. If the sub is located furthest away, shouldn't you use the sub to measure against the midrange/tweeters?
 

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Have one running one now as we speak . No issues

I have the ddrc24 and two HDs and a ddrc22d

All of them I have there own dedicated minidc no issues no noise
Works great!

It draws such little power.

The ddrc24 and the 2x4hds when operating get warm, pretty warm almost hot but just warm. That’s normal and they all seem to get the same temp.
When you used the minidc on the ddrc22d, did you have to get a 12v to 5v converter?
 

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I'm trying to understand this process. If the sub is located furthest away, shouldn't you use the sub to measure against the midrange/tweeters?
So if you have the Sub to MB aligned, you should then be able to use the MB to align to the MR and TW. At least for me thats what I did and it seemed easier and worked.
 
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