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Discussion Starter · #701 · (Edited)
So what your describing is essentially shipping a step. Rather than listen without dirac and validate changes to my response test the changes i think will yield small improvements directly with the target curve and A/B that result with the previous tune.
That actually saves time as long as i have a light hand and my listening impressions are on point. I'm getting really positive feedback on the overall tone and focus on my subtle tweaks from trustworthy sources do I'll continue with critical listening but with the methods you've outlined on the target curve.
Once the power upgrade is done I'll also take better mic measurements. I just have a mindset that i can still improve the sound in every system I've ever touched and that has been the case even with Dirac in this car. I am in it for hours each day and making mental notes by nature. I will cease and desist testing then with the peq instead of dirac directly.
Thanks again!
listening without Dirac ??? What’s the point ?
It will never be as good… turning Dirac off is only for pre setup , then run Dirac and listen


Once Dirac is ran , you have to use Dirac to make any sound changes…. Because only Dirac app will make the response changes you want and be able to keep everything in the right time!



Yes , drop a Dirac tune in a few slots programmed the same. Then make changes in Dirac !

Once Dirac is ran that’s it…. Levels, TA pretty much need to not be touched ….. and peq maybe some mild peq in areas I mentioned…. But never ever in modal areas!

Sometimes I’ll drop tweeter levels by half a db…. Rarely….. NEVER do any TA , or polarity flips unless the crossover requires it

If it sounds like it needs a polarity flip then that is interference most likely in the crossover
 

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That's the way I've been doing it. I learned right away that dirac didn't like me making changes in peq.
I have done a lot to avoid initial reflections and use home oriented speakers. Once i dialed in xovers its about chasing the hair standing up on the back of your neck. When the emotion and nuances are all present and somehow even the car seat gets more comfortable.
I'll move that effort directly to the target curve in those tiny increments.
I told my wife "i have to buy amps to get the potential out if the system" i need to add a new mic and an external hard drive to the list.
I how this encourages some to keep tweaking and pushing the envelope. I'm motivated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #703 · (Edited)
That's the way I've been doing it. I learned right away that dirac didn't like me making changes in peq.
I have done a lot to avoid initial reflections and use home oriented speakers. Once i dialed in xovers its about chasing the hair standing up on the back of your neck. When the emotion and nuances are all present and somehow even the car seat gets more comfortable.
I'll move that effort directly to the target curve in those tiny increments.
I told my wife "i have to buy amps to get the potential out if the system" i need to add a new mic and an external hard drive to the list.
I how this encourages some to keep tweaking and pushing the envelope. I'm motivated.
okay then …. Yeah Dirac is excellent

years ago when I first started tuning with Dirac , @Mic10is (a well respected competitor that won multiple word titles) told me he knew a guy (a competitor) that had issues with tonality…. Using Dirac and he got rid of Dirac 😵‍💫 . And subsequently mic hasn’t had any interest in Dirac. It sorta broke my heart in a car audio kinda way….

i wished so much I could’ve helped that guy because, it took me a few years to discover what and how to tune Dirac in a car and have superb tone….

I’m assuming he was doing it wrong unwittingly. I know I did for a long time…. It’s really easy to go down that path and get lost… Keep at it ! You’ll never go back to minimum phase dsp…
 

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I know Mic and go back even further. A true dinosaur. I recognized right away that dirac was making the fine tuning difficult. It was frustrating but i also realized it was doing things out of the gate that could take a lot of fine tuning To accomplish.
Merging these paths in the right way is the challenge, add those points (thanks Anu) and tweak the target curve.
Funny thing, my last competition system was in my Legend. I competed at '02 finals. My front speakers were installed at the venue so i had limited time to tune it after taking care of the other cars i was responsible for. I have even less time tuning this system and it sound better at least from 1 seat IMHO. Dirac works, i just have to make it work for me. Some of that means trusting a mic as much as my ears and getting them to work together.
I'll get a good mic and keep Dirac On going forward.
 

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Discussion Starter · #705 ·
I know Mic and go back even further. A true dinosaur. I recognized right away that dirac was making the fine tuning difficult. It was frustrating but i also realized it was doing things out of the gate that could take a lot of fine tuning To accomplish.
Merging these paths in the right way is the challenge, add those points (thanks Anu) and tweak the target curve.
Funny thing, my last competition system was in my Legend. I competed at '02 finals. My front speakers were installed at the venue so i had limited time to tune it after taking care of the other cars i was responsible for. I have even less time tuning this system and it sound better at least from 1 seat IMHO. Dirac works, i just have to make it work for me. Some of that means trusting a mic as much as my ears and getting them to work together.
I'll get a good mic and keep Dirac On going forward.
you’ll get there, sorry if I sounded like a pain in the ass. 🤓

just please don’t give up on it there’s definitely a learning curve, and once you find it. it’s amazing

you can make traditional DSP sounds really good but this type of DSP definitely behaves differently

The room will never be as lively, tone can be a ***** to get right, but once all that is squared away , and being 100% honest with yourself not what you think you like but what actually sounds better and is more correct and faithful to the sound source you’ll never ever turn back
 

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Discussion Starter · #706 ·
Like with minimum phase dsps , I could get the center to be dead center of dash on all songs , fairly easily. And different recordings wouldn’t be a whole lot difference. They all were pretty much the same center with minor differences.

Dirac will also do that, but some songs have what sounds like at first blurry center…. But once you realize it’s not blurry and the recording was meant to have the singer in the far field of stage then you’ll always hear and identify those recordings and hear it as far field ….

it’s just hard to grasp the stage going beyond the windshield…. It’s not like it sounds outside the car, it sounds more like no car at all. And sorta almost headphones effect but with proper imaging.

Here’s a track that gives that effect


 

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I did a tune from the passenger seat so I can give bestow a rider the sweet spot. But that's rare.
 

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Discussion Starter · #709 ·
I have a two seat tune that I did, The images decent on both sides center is good but left and right are a little Quacky but I listen to it about a fourth of the time when I have someone with me

otherwise it’s just the onesie tune
 

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Discussion Starter · #712 ·
I’ve tried it but it sucks

The two seat tune that I use is a rephase tune
I used Dirac with gains and delays disabled then used rephase with an upstream OpenDrc at 48k and forced a 90/90 phase between 250-1000hz

then set the response around everything else

center is good , like I said left and right wonky

I am not using my dash 6.5s on that tune
Only kick panels 3s and tweets as those drivers have under .6ms PLD

i’m pretty sure your path length differences for Dirac to do it would have to be very very low like a sofa to a 12 foot away speaker side which equates to about .3 ms

in my car the two seat tune is really super fuzzy and phasy … The center is so diffuse I kind of can’t even make it out at all
 

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I may attempt a two seat tune, but I figure it's a compromise for both people, so I likely won't bother. Since at least 90% of the time I'm alone in the car, on the occasions I do have someone with me, I'd rather let them enjoy the sweet spot. Sounds pretty weird from the driver's seat, but it's a small sacrifice when I get the full measure pretty much all the time.
 
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okay then …. Yeah Dirac is excellent

years ago when I first started tuning with Dirac , @Mic10is (a well respected competitor that won multiple word titles) told me he knew a guy (a competitor) that had issues with tonality…. Using Dirac and he got rid of Dirac 😵‍💫 . And subsequently mic hasn’t had any interest in Dirac. It sorta broke my heart in a car audio kinda way….

i wished so much I could’ve helped that guy because, it took me a few years to discover what and how to tune Dirac in a car and have superb tone….

I’m assuming he was doing it wrong unwittingly. I know I did for a long time…. It’s really easy to go down that path and get lost… Keep at it ! You’ll never go back to minimum phase dsp…
Funny, The only MECA competitors I know with Dirac, one loves it, the other dropped it because of signal compatibility issues with hardware (nothing to do with DIRAC) and will likely re-try and get it fixed this winter.

Based on my point scores, in multiple cars, with MECA, I'd say this: Dirac will help you get good scores fast. It used to take me hours to get something that Dirac can do in 10 min of measuring.

Still requires that back and forth afterwards to tweak.
 

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Discussion Starter · #715 ·
Funny, The only MECA competitors I know with Dirac, one loves it, the other dropped it because of signal compatibility issues with hardware (nothing to do with DIRAC) and will likely re-try and get it fixed this winter.

Based on my point scores, in multiple cars, with MECA, I'd say this: Dirac will help you get good scores fast. It used to take me hours to get something that Dirac can do in 10 min of measuring.

Still requires that back and forth afterwards to tweak.

That was back in 2015 tho or 16

A lot has changed
 

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Discussion Starter · #718 ·
It is very cool - top shelf drivers - very good placement - and an amazing baffle design!


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I’ve never met this gent

I thought he was a complete rook, now I’m finding out he’s been in this for a minute and is not a complete rook ….(whoops)

Now I want to see the car it sounds like it’s probably pretty awesome
 

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Simple setup in a 2021 Mitsubishi Mirage G4. 1 year old and just shy of 24K miles.
Joying head unit to Harmony 8×12. I figured the amplified version was only a little more $$ and install would be easier. Its under pass seat.
Sending 40w to each vc of a Hybrid clarity 12dvc in spare tire well. Shallow sub for 2 chambered enclosure with spare present (needed that on NJTPK last week) can AP that in future to tune response if it gets enough power.
Front is 2 way, Purifi PTT6.5's in kick panels with aperiodic vents into the sill. Tuned with rockwool and fiberglass to match , they barely move with 40w but match the tonality and accuracy of the tweeters well.
Bliesma T34B are on pillar / dashpods {tumors). Mounted in wg relatively on axis. I had them in fog light housings for a few weeks to aim them. Added clear acrylic baffles around the wg to eliminate the round baffle issues and direct as much of the sound waves within the passband as feasible with functional airbags.

Sweet spot is large, seat position doesn't have that much of a negative effect. Maintains a good center image with one or both windows open. I am getting everything available from the Harmony. I'm probably the only car there that judges took out the db meter to make sure i met the volume threshold for high level linearity. Not by much but its enough volume for everyday driving...just enough. The PTT6's would love it if i closed the 15db back to the tweeters with some watts.

I wanted to try things i always thought about in a car i didn't care about if i was going to build myself a car. Its been a while. Last car was in 04, my Evo has the same system as it did then and less miles on it than this car.
 

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Simple setup in a 2021 Mitsubishi Mirage G4. 1 year old and just shy of 24K miles.
Joying head unit to Harmony 8×12. I figured the amplified version was only a little more $$ and install would be easier. Its under pass seat.
Sending 40w to each vc of a Hybrid clarity 12dvc in spare tire well. Shallow sub for 2 chambered enclosure with spare present (needed that on NJTPK last week) can AP that in future to tune response if it gets enough power.
Front is 2 way, Purifi PTT6.5's in kick panels with aperiodic vents into the sill. Tuned with rockwool and fiberglass to match , they barely move with 40w but match the tonality and accuracy of the tweeters well.
Bliesma T34B are on pillar / dashpods {tumors). Mounted in wg relatively on axis. I had them in fog light housings for a few weeks to aim them. Added clear acrylic baffles around the wg to eliminate the round baffle issues and direct as much of the sound waves within the passband as feasible with functional airbags.

Sweet spot is large, seat position doesn't have that much of a negative effect. Maintains a good center image with one or both windows open. I am getting everything available from the Harmony. I'm probably the only car there that judges took out the db meter to make sure i met the volume threshold for high level linearity. Not by much but its enough volume for everyday driving...just enough. The PTT6's would love it if i closed the 15db back to the tweeters with some watts.

I wanted to try things i always thought about in a car i didn't care about if i was going to build myself a car. Its been a while. Last car was in 04, my Evo has the same system as it did then and less miles on it than this car.
Any pics or build log?


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