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With my amp and powered sub all being connected via high level input due to the factory head unit, and given the fact the hpf 80hz slope is set on the amp which powers the door and dash speakers, would it be advisable to to turn the bass up to full on the head units "3" band equaliser to maximise the bass signal going to the sub? This does seem to have a significant effect on the bass of the sub depending where it is set. The sub has a lpf that goes 50 to 125 hz, I have this set some where between 70 - 80.
Do you know the max clean volume of your headunit, everything set flat and centered ?
 

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Discussion Starter #22
with the hpf on, the factory dash speakers distort at about at about 80% but I plan on replacing them soon as they are too loud and I hear them over everything else , not sure if the sub distorts or not.
 

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Set everything on your headunit flat. Balance and fader centered. Figure out the highest number of volume you can go before it distorts using test tones. You need to turn gains on amps all the way counterclockwise first.
 

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I am the KING of using Factory decks etc. Let me tell ya... Only a FEW are good sounding decks. Its not the chips, but the damn E.Q. Curves they put in these things. Sure it may work well for one car, but not the other.

For example. My PT Cruiser still has the FACTORY DECK. Compared to the older one? I hate the sound.

No matter what good speakers I put in there, it always sounded like poo.. If there was ANY car that needed a DSP out of the gate, THIS ONE IS IT!

If you are going to keep your stock Head Unit? And you want the CHEAPEST way to get good sound? Look up the FreeDsp project. You can get a Board for $17 bucks shipped to your home. Get your soldering iron out and download Room EQ Wizard or use Audiotool on a phone for tuning and Real TIme RTA.


Other then that Bill, go to a shop that can help you out. Or be like China and copy a good setup.

90% of why people cars sound bad is simply they forgot the BASICS.

1. CLEAN AUDIO SIGNAL and Chain from the headunit to the Amps to the speakers.

2. Proper Speaker Installation as in you did the sound deadening, installed the drivers that work best in the air space you have and nothing is buzzing... and PROPER SPEAKER PLACEMENT.

3. E.Q. You do not need a DSP. But GOOD LORD DOES IT HELP! It also makes things so simple. And it will have a Built in Equalizer.


For the more advanced guys, they can do it with building filters from scratch and just speaker placement. There is a REASON why I love my 3rd Generation 2000 Chrysler Town and Country Minivan. The cabin sounds wonderful. Good speakers and a good Eq and speaker placement does wonders.

Smaller cabins? With Train Tunnel like acoustics? DSP bro. End of story.

But I can GUARANTEE. THat stock head unit you got must be E.Q. from the factory curve that was made for another car or truck and it will never sound good in yours unless you get it flat and then tweak with your own E.Q.

And a Quick tip. Power is just a excuse for good sound. Trust me on this. Those people who Swear by their Lowther drivers , single ended Class A Tube Amps know what they are talking about.


Let me also give you a fair bit of advice. Those door speakers? They are NOT in an enclosure. I'm pretty sure they are the low QTS (without the Accordion style surround pro style speakers) so they really probably have WAY to much Midbass in the 85-160 Hz region. And the cabin gain is not doing you any favors for SQ. So, try this out.

Get your phone out, Download or try to get a phone like a ZTE ZMAX pro that has the Dolby Audio on it. Mess with that Eq and turn down the 250HZ band and tune from there. Do that with musical instruments you know. Just go down the bands until it sounds just like the instrument you know the best.


Then, Pick up a pair of Headphones you know that are accurate. I suggest the Panasonic RPTX 7. Listen to a track in that at LOW volume. Make sure you ears are not swiss cheese. SO do it in the morning. Or LATE at night when it is REALLY QUIET. If you have a quiet neighborhood, then listen to them outside. I know this sounds far out, but it does sound different.

Now, the track you want to tune with should be played on the set of cans, and on your deck in the car. Try to fiddle with what controls you have on your deck to get it as close as you can to the headphones. Take them on and off your head in the car with the windows down. (trust me on this) Then take your phone out and load up the Dolby Audio app. TURN OFF ALL THE MUSIC. Now, go to the Manual controls, And ZERO all the dials. What you want to do is use only the bottom 1/3 of the screen on the EQ app.

Now Tune till it sounds just right at low volume then mid volume. Then High volume.

Now, that you have done all that? You can play with Vocal and Ambience settings.


A quick note about your door speakers. If you really pay attention, or get a Really large driver, you will see that a 100Hz @ 12dB is QUITE A LOT FOR DOOR SPEAKERS. You can get some WIcked bass out with a large driver that can play that with cabin gain in the car. So the 80 Hz is way to low at 12 dB for small door speakers. 6x9's will do the 80 Hz cutoff okay. But you are still asking a LOT of regular drivers in non optimized enclosures in a car.

You want to know why they make speakers with those Crap Tiny Mylar Tweeters that only really seem to be one note Cymbal wonders? Cuz if they sold speakers that actually did sound full? You would hate them in a car at high volumes.

That's why they try to sell you speakers that are LOUD. Not good sounding to the masses. Most people just don't understand the ROOM is the main problem. There was a good reason why People use to hang speakers from the ceiling back in the day and fire them down.

Good luck man. I hope I helped a bit.








 

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Discussion Starter #26
Thanks Mick, appreciated.

I put a small amount of sound deadening and closed cell foam behind the door speaker and foam rings but now I have worked out how to remove the door card with more confidence, the cellophane sheet I plan to order some more deadening and replace it with that to try and make more of an enclosure, you reckon that will help with SQ much?

For a flat eq I had been toying with getting a pioneer deqs100a, but that's a way off if I do.

I started out just wanting to improve sq a bit which I have definitely done but it's a bit of a rabbit hole.

Will digest the rest of your post now!
 

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Discussion Starter #27 (Edited)
The hpf of 80hZ/12db on the door speakers, it really does suck most of the bass out of them, presumably I should still be able to hear some. Well there is bass but I am not sure how to describe it, flat - is that right? They sound good with the hpf off and on full range until they distort of course. It sound's good with the small sub on though and the HPF on.

Anyways I will be moving them to the rear doors as I have ordered some components, I have also ordered sound deadening which I will apply to the outer door skin and use to seal the access holes as I believe that this is supposed to help.
 

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The hpf of 80hZ/12db on the door speakers, it really does suck most of the bass out of them, presumably I should still be able to here some. Well there is bass but I am not sure how to decribe it, flat - is that right? They sound good with the hpf off and on full range until they distort of course. It sound's good with the small sub on though and the HPF on.

Anyways I will be moving them to the rear doors as I have ordered some components, I have also ordered sound deadening which I will apply to the outer door skin and use to seal the access holes as I believe that this is supposed to help.
Even with the new components you're going to want to use the 80hz HPF. You need the sub to do the heavy lifting, a 6.5" will distort heavily if you ask for much lower than 80hz at any decent volume.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Yes totally, I wasn't planning on turning the hpf off, just commenting on bass output and wondering if it was normal.
 

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Yes totally, I wasn't planning on turning the hpf off, just commenting on bass output and wondering if it was normal.
It is normal, that's what the filter does. I high pass filter blocks frequencies below whatever you set it at, 80hz in your case. This isn't a brick wall, so frequencies below 80hz still play, but much quieter. The amount those frequencies are attenuated depends on the slope of the crossover, as shallow slope like 6dB/octave allows much frequencies to be much louder than a 24dB/octave slope. So, with a filter set at 80hz and a 6dB slope, 40hz (which is one octave below 80hz) will be 6dB quieter than 80hz. With a 24dB slope, 40hz will be 24dB quieter than 80hz.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Per my other thread, I replaced the Kenwoods with the Pioneer TS-D65C and the result is a lot more bass overall with everything on the same settings for some reason.

Getting back to crossover points which for this set is supposed to be 3KHz or 3.5 KHz depending on if you look at the US or EU Pioneer site. Does this mean the woofer which has a built in crossover on it will have a lpf at around that and will get everything below and the tweeter that has an inline crossover will have a hpf and get everything above? if this is this the case , does this mean there is effectively a bandpass on the woofer as the hpf on the amp feeding it is activated?
 
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