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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am curious to know logically heat is what makes efficiency go down lowers sq and also kills rms as long degrades electronics etc. if it did I’d use some high end paste but even if this isn’t possible I’m considering on getting custom noctua ippc 3000rpm ip67 fans in there since heat goes out thru the heat sinks having the air blow inside more and fans on the outside would keep the amps cooler and more efficient. I’m still planning out a lot of my build here and running class ab amps are hot. Just thinking on options that would be cool to keep the electronics coolers
 

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I am curious to know logically heat is what makes efficiency go down lowers sq and also kills rms as long degrades electronics etc. if it did I’d use some high end paste but even if this isn’t possible I’m considering on getting custom noctua ippc 3000rpm ip67 fans in there since heat goes out thru the heat sinks having the air blow inside more and fans on the outside would keep the amps cooler and more efficient. I’m still planning out a lot of my build here and running class ab amps are hot. Just thinking on options that would be cool to keep the electronics coolers
Thermal compound is used to ensure as close to 100% contact and heat transfer as possible to the chassis. If the compound is not dried and crusty you will likely not notice a difference. Use none conductive as most pc compound does contain conductive elements. Dow corning 340 is my go to.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thermal compound is used to ensure as close to 100% contact and heat transfer as possible to the chassis. If the compound is not dried and crusty you will likely not notice a difference. Use none conductive as most pc compound does contain conductive elements. Dow corning 340 is my go to.
What components of the amp would you out the thermal paste on? I have also considers using thermal pads on components if any are allowed to have it on there. I am asking because idk if any of this is possible to put on a amplifier
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Think your energy would be better spent elsewhere tbh.
I think you misunderstand my money is being spent everywhere I already have money invested into everything else now I’m about efficiency. And I can’t keep my sq all the time if my heat is causing it to go down I know it does because it’s been tested and proven on a dac alone and guess what if it happens on a dac it will happen everywhere else.
 

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Honestly, the advice to look elsewhere for improvements is great advice. Any quality thermal compound such as listed above will have optimal results provided it is used correctly. Different manufacturers use different materials to insulate the mosfets and transistors from the chassis. I have stuck with kapton tape 1 mil thick. You will see better cooling performance from fans than anything you could improve upon in these areas. Class A/B by design will run hot, its the nature of the beast. Don't assume this is degrading performance versus a cold amp. It all has to do with design. What amps are you referring to?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Honestly, the advice to look elsewhere for improvements is great advice. Any quality thermal compound such as listed above will have optimal results provided it is used correctly. Different manufacturers use different materials to insulate the mosfets and transistors from the chassis. I have stuck with kapton tape 1 mil thick. You will see better cooling performance from fans than anything you could improve upon in these areas. Class A/B by design will run hot, its the nature of the beast. Don't assume this is degrading performance versus a cold amp. It all has to do with design. What amps are you referring to?
Zapco ap amps I plan on getting some fans put inside and outside the amps to keep both ends cooler but in general if it’s to hot for my hand then it’s to hot for me. So yes I def will keep it cooler
 

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My suggestion would be a fan at each end, one pushing and one pulling. Check out A/C Infinity, they have a line of pc fans that are quite and have nice features.
 
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What components of the amp would you out the thermal paste on?
...
Just put it onto those big things mounted onto the heat sink.
They are the only components that use the heat sink to remove their heat.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
My suggestion would be a fan at each end, one pushing and one pulling. Check out A/C Infinity, they have a line of pc fans that are quite and have nice features.
I appreciate you looking out for them being quiet but I plan on getting noctua ippc 3000 ip67 fans they are loud yes but push a lot of static pressure and I won’t be hearing my fans with my music going so I’m not concerned about the fans at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Just put it onto those big things mounted onto the heat sink.
They are the only components that use the heat sink to remove their heat.
Ok I’m not sure where you are talking about specifically because I don’t see that in the board but I’ll upload some pics and show you where I think they are supposed to go because that’s where you would be putting them on a pc.

If I am understanding they way heat dissipates I would be putting them on the black chips in between the transformer and the caps on one pic and on the other pic you can see the whole board where it will show the op amps on the top there are also black chips I would put the thermal pad on all of these.

what I am trying to figure out now is what are all those things the jagged notches all over the board like the ones between the chips and op amps. Iknow they are circuitry but I wouldn’t know if putting thermal pads on these as well would help at all. There is a specific company that makes really good thermal pads for the giant gaming laptops like Clevo. I’ll have to go in the forums to find the brand again.
305907
305908
305909
 

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I think Holmz is referring to the transistors, they are clipped to the heatsink on the left and right hand side of the PCB. They will have had thermal compound applied to the face that makes contact with the insulator pad on the heatsink when the amp was built.

They are the components that generate heat, and provided they have never been removed from the heatsink, there should be no need to do anything to them.

OPamps, ICs, small transistors etc will not be generating heat.
 

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You are wasting your time doing this and run the risk of breaking something if you think adding thermal pads inside the amp are going to give you any advantage. Those clamps are pressing the power generating component against the heatsink and the thermal compound is already there. If you want to do anything worthwhile, blow a fan across the heatsink and call it a day.
 

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I think Holmz is referring to the transistors, they are clipped to the heatsink on the left and right hand side of the PCB. They will have had thermal compound applied to the face that makes contact with the insulator pad on the heatsink when the amp was built.
….
Yeah - I think what I am referring to is if someone doesn’t know “what needs what”, it is not like we pour a quart like a deep frier.

The designer/engineer probably sized it all up well, and now someone says “heat is bad” and wants to redesign it…
 

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I am curious to know logically heat is what makes efficiency go down lowers sq and also kills rms as long degrades electronics etc. if it did I’d use some high end paste but even if this isn’t possible I’m considering on getting custom noctua ippc 3000rpm ip67 fans in there since heat goes out thru the heat sinks having the air blow inside more and fans on the outside would keep the amps cooler and more efficient. I’m still planning out a lot of my build here and running class ab amps are hot. Just thinking on options that would be cool to keep the electronics coolers
This is a terrible idea. Do not disassemble your amplifier to replace the SIL pads with paste.
 

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You are wasting your time doing this and run the risk of breaking something if you think adding thermal pads inside the amp are going to give you any advantage. Those clamps are pressing the power generating component against the heatsink and the thermal compound is already there. If you want to do anything worthwhile, blow a fan across the heatsink and call it a day.
stop,
you clearly don't understand. the transistors alon gth eoutside get hot and the transformers get hot.
what a big d video on you tube. he use a flir on a camera to show how and where an ap get hot. its always the transformers because the transistors are touching the heatsink already. the ambient heat form the transformers makes everything but the transistors hotter than they make themselves, and a heatskink would probably heat the chip more than cool the chips.
 

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I am curious to know logically heat is what makes efficiency go down lowers sq
Heat doesn't "make efficiency go down"

Heat doesn't "lower sound quality"

For instance, Class A amplifiers run hot as a frying pan. That doesn't mean that they sound better or worse than Class AB amps, it just means they're inefficient, and that inefficiency causes them to turn a lot of input power into heat.

IE, if you had an amplifier that was very efficient, it would not get very hot. (This is why Class D amps do not get very hot.)

There ARE good reasons to try and keep your amps cool. For instance, a cool amp may be able to play louder, since it's not running into it's thermal limits.

But keeping an amp running cool isn't going to magically make it sound better, unless you were running it at it's limits all the time. And if you're running it at it's limits all the time, you should get a bigger amp.

 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Heat doesn't "make efficiency go down"

Heat doesn't "lower sound quality"

For instance, Class A amplifiers run hot as a frying pan. That doesn't mean that they sound better or worse than Class AB amps, it just means they're inefficient, and that inefficiency causes them to turn a lot of input power into heat.

IE, if you had an amplifier that was very efficient, it would not get very hot. (This is why Class D amps do not get very hot.)

There ARE good reasons to try and keep your amps cool. For instance, a cool amp may be able to play louder, since it's not running into it's thermal limits.

But keeping an amp running cool isn't going to magically make it sound better, unless you were running it at it's limits all the time. And if you're running it at it's limits all the time, you should get a bigger amp.
I understand what you mean but the quality does go down on the dac chips for example I’ll post the link SMSL M500 Teardown & ESS ES9038Pro DAC Thermal Analysis

this right here proves that heat on the dac alone loses the and dynamic range. It may not be super noticeable and might not be able tohear The difference but I live I. A hot state and have a black car and I won’t have my stuff over heat. Everything is more efficient when it’s not that hot in general. Heat kills all electronics faster. It’s a proven fact that performance drops in high temps and guess what if it happens to the dac it will happen to the other parts on the amp as well. It’s why I’ll have my amps in a enclosed case with a push pull setup for airflow with filters for dust and the amp case off for when I upgrade to those giant burson v6 classic which is to big for the amp cover to be on but this is my custom setup and I’ll be proud of my accomplishments. But yes heat kills performance in general.
 

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I understand what you mean but the quality does go down on the dac chips for example I’ll post the link SMSL M500 Teardown & ESS ES9038Pro DAC Thermal Analysis

this right here proves that heat on the dac alone loses the and dynamic range. It may not be super noticeable and might not be able tohear The difference but I live I. A hot state and have a black car and I won’t have my stuff over heat. Everything is more efficient when it’s not that hot in general. Heat kills all electronics faster. It’s a proven fact that performance drops in high temps and guess what if it happens to the dac it will happen to the other parts on the amp as well. It’s why I’ll have my amps in a enclosed case with a push pull setup for airflow with filters for dust and the amp case off for when I upgrade to those giant burson v6 classic which is to big for the amp cover to be on but this is my custom setup and I’ll be proud of my accomplishments. But yes heat kills performance in general.
That does prove it if the amp you are comparing the paper to is running the same DAC.

if not, then the paper proves nothing.
 
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