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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello wonderful people of DIYMA!

My name is Eddie, I am located at Israel.

I will try to make it short as I can, minimal but still related to the "must" in my perspective.

Thought it would be nice posting my recently new purchase of a 2014 Citroen DS4 and the small (by all means) SQ project done in it.
Not really sure if I should use the term SQ but more of a just for jun type of system.

A bit about my self - 43y old, married with two children, working as a high tech industry support engineer and as a hobby I am managing/editing a local car audio forum.

A bit about the car - It is a luxury line of Citroen (Since 2015 they are regarded as a separate brand) which focuses mostly at the design aspects of the car and provides a bit of a sporty drive.

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And from the rear-side of it:



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The Gear:

Tw's
- HAT Legatia V1 - yes the old small ones, 8 ohm versions - they have a very clear, detailed sound to them, easy to install just about anywhere and I realy love that "glitter" or shine they bring.

They are mated in to custom made pods for them by valicar Germany (ebay). The pods were made too small so we've had to machine the tweeters instead (will be shown in the up coming days).

Mids - Morel CCWR 254 - I am a Morel enthusiast and it had been a very long time since I've wanted to try this new product - Currently I would say that I did not have low nor high expectations from them - the end result was surprising towards the upper side of the expectations.

These are as well mated to pods made for CCWR or GB25's by valicar.

Woofers - The OEM ones and no it is not the Denon system, its the lower trim DS 5 line - I don't even know what's in the doors they just performed well enough at the low end so I decided to keep them and not to bother on opening the doors at all.

"sub" - Alpine PWE-S8 - yes, the slim active sub woofer that is used when there are space consideration as requirements.

In my case I just wanted an empty trunk and an empty foot well but still wanted some low extension so decided to attempt this type of solution.

Singnal chain -

HU - JOYING SPDIF-DSP with a 7 inch screen

I will post some data on this HU a bit later on but currently all I have to say is that for 350USD given take plus/minus - wow!

From the JOYING -> SPDIF cable to a SPDIF converter to Optic Out --> Audison prima bit8.9

The main aim is to draw the least amount of power from the DS5 electircal system while still maintaining high clarity of the signal and reasonable listening volumes and as well take out zero storage space from the car.

The woofers are bridged to ch 1/2 and 3/4
mids at 5 6
Tws at 7 8
Sub via ch 9

Both the sub and the Prima are installed under the passenger seat, it is my daily for office and home mostly yet due to the kids I wanted an empty trunk from all aspects - safety and usability.

Just a little bit about the Joying - Here.

I intend to show the build and the technical model done just prior to the install and fabrication done on this car during the following day.

Until then - stay safe! stay well!

These are challenging times.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Just before the installation, I've made a technical model at home.

To do that I've taken an old PC power supplier, jumped between the green wire to the nearest black wire to it (the green wire is the power signal to switch on the PSU).

I've ran three tests:

1. HU and SPDIF - I've powered up the HU and configured the DS sign on it, some of the CAN protocols and so on.

Connected the SPDIF cable and from there to a SPDIF to Optic converter which was connected to a power source of 5V from the PC PSU (a PC PSU has several voltages such as 3v, 5v, 12v and they can bee added or reduced to form different voltages) -> from the Optic converter I've connected a BT/Optic TX/RX -> BT headphones

And this is how I've tested that SPDIF and conversion to optic out works.

2. Second test was the active subwoofer - Very simple test, power source 12v (PC PSU), 3.5 to RCA connected at one end to my phone and at the other to the sub -> works.

3. Audison prima and speakers - I've powered up the Prima and initialized it based on the settings expected to the new car and set the initial slopes and xover points - connected each speaker to both channels (one at a time) and have made sure that all speakers and all channel are working.

The sub output I knew was working fine (part of the gear was taken from the previous vehicle which was an 08 Dodge Nitro SXT).

What I've forgot to test out was -

I did not initiate channel 9 so after the install we've found out that there is no sound going out to the subwoofer - 10 minutes, re-initiated the Prima and all is well.

Neither the antenna nor the remote amp output any power from it - we've bypassed it using a power source from the vehicle which turned out to be a good idea as from the radio harness each time I open a door and the car is at ignition off, it would still power up the radio for 5 minutes - and that would have powered up the prima and the sub internal amp, so happy that this is avoided...


But later on I've found out that both of the wires were switched off by the software of the Joying (although their support claims that the amplifier out remote should be always on).

Subwoofer being tested:

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HU being tested:

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Prima being tested:

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Discussion Starter #3
Maybe just a little bit more about the car and its interior before I cover the actual install and fabrication process.

The engine is a THP155 - yes! the same notorious engine that is found in the Mini cooper only that the mini has the BMW design of it and the DS has PSA's

In between 2011 to Q1 2013 it was the "euro4" engine which had a lot of issues with the design of the timing chain, fuel pump, turbo connectors and some of the rubber hoses.
The 2014 is a "euro5" engine which should be equipped with revised parts and show better reliability but the "good" engine to look for is actually the "euro6" starting 2015 so... wish me luck.

Unlike the DS from the late 50's this one does not have a "magic carpet ride" in fact it is about as firm as a new Mazda 6 from those years when it comes to city pavements - but the seats are extra comfortable and on a clear road its a pure joy to ride.

The engine is a 1.6 turbo charged petrol that produces 155 BHP and can take 95/98 (regular/premium) fuel.
The behavior of the vehicle - handling I believe would be a better word? is a sporty one, it turns sharp, has good in between acceleration yet the overal performance are nothing to be thrilled about.

It is the design and the overhaul quality that makes this car what it is. It was design to resemble a fighter jet - it does somewhat feels like a star trooper jet fighter sometimes.

Yet the color is metalic black, it has a panoramic roof with three openings and many of the handles (doors, shifter knob, steering wheel) are cast aluminum and on a hot day over here - without driving gloves - forget it. at least for the first five minutes.

Some pics - later on I will cover the install and fabrication process.

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Discussion Starter #4
As for the installation and fabrication done

There are very few installers over here that are also doing fabrication and customization works - very few in terms of you can count them single handed. Really if you want to fabricate something it is either going to a metal engraver or a carpenter and each time ordering the specifc job and parts I want without them even knowing what it is used for.

I've seen people here sending their a-pillar to Russia in order to get them customized and so on in some cases because they know the local market there better.

My self - I've posted here once at the "show off" thread of the a-pillars a 3d printed pod for HAT L1v1 and a CDM 880 which were designed by my self and printed for me by a friend which worked at stratasys at the time.

For this install I have chosen to use the services of "elite car audio" which is a car audio installer and as well fabricator at a very high level of skill - and these are the results.

First - one of the pods ordered from val-car Germany were too small at the outer diameter, not sure why, maybe the PDF I've sent him were not right for the L1v1 or a earlier version of them? don't know, maybe Val-car made a mistake? possibly - can't tell - don't care and here is why: This is the initial state between the L1v1 to the POD it is supposed to be mated to

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To make them fit - Yossi, the owner of ecaudio have done this:

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And this:

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And this:

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And this...

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Then they are matched together so the outer diameter is smaller but the holes location remained apx the same:

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Just a little bit of decoartion:

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And they are ready to be introduced and mates with their final resting place - the pods of despair :rolleyes:

I will later on try to load a video of the process but first I will need to convert MP4 to AVI.


Going Forward - the Making of the DRC tray which elso embeds a charging port for the cellular phone and the Alpine sub level remote:



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Above - Alpine level remote sent to a parallel universe

Below - first template before painting:

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Then paint:

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And I will have to continue at the next post a bit later on.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Final assembly for the DRC fitting:


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Moving on to the JOYING screen - the following mount was fabricated:

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The end result of it:

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The parts which were removed from the car for storage keeping:

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Wiring code - green right, red left

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Prima location:

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The PWE-S8 is just behind it just a little bit sticking out to the back but since it has hard metal chasis there are no issue to put feet on it, the kids are still small and are not reaching there regardless and it is my daily driver for office and back mostly.

For family and weekend we prefer the Subaru legacy - it is more comfortable and practical.

Still can't upload the two short videos.

Later on I will get to the final stage of the install.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
And now for the final install which also shows the pods and the custom phone mount built for the DS.

It is a metalic backing with custom fit mount for the charging cable which is connected to the DRC docking plate.

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And the pods

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and

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and...

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and then some...

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more

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two more to go

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After this pictures where taken the microphone was attached to its final postion which is just above the mirror housing.


Currently I am at the last stages (I hope) of the rough tuning. It will take me quite some time to get back here and post them but will do so eventually, for now - just wanted to share this install and new experience.

Feel free to ask anything/everything that may come to mind no matter if it is sound related or anything else :)

Thank you for this wonderful forum!

Eddie
 

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Nice install!
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks guys - appreciated!

I will try to give my initial impression about some of the drivers at the following days - with some of them I have long term experience, some are new to me.
 

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A bit about the measuring and tuning gear I am using:

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As you can see I am using a rather simple setup.

The gear:

1. Ear protecting cups - it is a must!
2. UMIK-1 by MDSP
3. A Micro USB HUB for the tablet so that I can plug both the umik-1 and the Prima.
4. iRullu tablet 8 inch which runs Win10 and has the AP8bit and REW softwares installed on it.
5. My own work laptop when I want to make fine adjustments for which the iRullu touch screen is not sensitive enough or I just want a normal keyboard.

The way the measurements are done:

I am connecting either the PC or the Tablet to both Prima and UMIK and then I am connecting the PC/Tablet via BT directly to the JOYING
Then I run the measurement from the REW through the BT towards the JOYING while the feedback goes back to the very same PC/Tablet via the UMIK

No ASIO dirvers, no physical connection in between them - The aim of the measurements are only to provide me with the critical starting points so that I can visualize what I am unable to hear or determine by hearing.

The rest is done by my ears, simple, short, effective but nothing that is um... competitive?
It takes a click of a button to connect the setup and run.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
My impression with the system

Woofers

These are the OEM, the ones came with the car from the factory - The DS5 higher trim has a Denon 14 speakers system, my DS is the SO CHIC trim and it comes with a 2pcs front component set not mentioned by which brand. They have a Focal IS PSA upgrade option.

From the very first moment I've bought the cars I've noticed that the sound they make is decent and the emphasis is at the low end, they sound like microsubs - and that is exactly why I've decided not to stress the install about replacing them and as well making re fitments for after market speakers and then putting the extra efforts to isolate the doors - Did not find the need to do any of that. The doors are very solid and seem to be well isolated directly from the factory.

After the system install each of them receives a bridged channel from the prima - I took them down as 50Hz at 24db slope and they don't even seem to brake a sweat! And they can for sure handle more power than the "130" watts this prima is trying to output.

I am thinking of either replacing it with a Prima Forza during next year or infact to change the install and go for a Helix integrator either the P six or the Veight.

These woofers are accurate, punchy and strong - as long as they perform, I will not change them, If I do - I am drooling about the scan speak gold woofers so if not an integrator change - maybe a woofer change - nice to have dreams.

Midranges - Morel CCWR 254

I am a Morel fanatic, being them an Israeli product and as well me being a person who tend to love the warm and laid back sound - Morel are one of the most perfect vendors I can think of.
I've had so many of their speakers and always liked the sound of them.

The CCWR are a product released by Morel when they' reached the age of 40, and it shows - at my other car (the one in the signature) I have the CDM 880 and in the past I used to own the first gen of the CDM - Their sound signature remains with the same warmth but it feels to me that over the years their newer product have better detail and a bit stronger response at the upper edge - just me maybe.

The CCWR shows that process of evolution - it is a much more mature product, I would like to say that I did not expect much from a 2.5 wide band yet I've owned in the past a CDT audio ES-02 and they were spectacular! so I've had high hopes from the CCWR - and they did not let me down!

They have that warm signature to them but just a bit less - they are not as strong as I would have thought they would be but they feel so natural - The vocals are not week or vague but as well they don't just "jump out" from the image and they don't have too much coloration in to them - they are somewhat natural-warm ? hard to describe sound in words for sure.

I like them! bottom line - they are worth every penny paid for.

Tweeters - HAT Legatia L1v1

They are not manufactured anymore - for a long time now. As soon as I was able to lay my hands on another set of those - I just went running to get them.

They have unbelievable level of detail to them and this is taking place without them being too loud and without causing any pain or listening fatigue, at the same time they have such a small foot print that you can virtually install them anywhere.

Taking the whole package of them - I find them irreplaceable.

Subwoofer - Alpine PWE-S8

What a lovely suprise!

My theory was that if I am aiming to peak at 60-80Hz then even the simplest 8 inch woofer (not sub-woofer but woofer) would do the job well,there is no reason why it shouldn't right?

But at the same time I've had very little expectations of such a solution to perform well so I've started researching all aspects of under-seat slim powered subwoofers and I finally came to Alpine and JBL and Pioneer which had several things in common which are metal casing and not plastic and ease of install and as well good ratings and awards.

I went for the PWE-S8 because it was available and accessible for me.

It is heavy - full metal casing, very strong and very durable - I've expected it to have a good restrain over the driver installed in it.
It is small! - it is just a bit longer than a paper sheet at the size of A4 and 8CM height - it just sled right under the seat like it belonged there.

But how does it sound?

Obviously if you will not band pass it - it will sound like crap right as you go above normal listening volumes.

But when you band pass it steep at 40-50Hz - it kicks like a drum! and it kicks pretty damn hard - in fact it is quite impressive to get such a nice kick from something that shallow and that small. but by no means is the a valid replacement for a full sized subwoofer in a full sized box - just that I am not looking for such low extension to begin with.

I am pleased with it for this type of application - it keeps the car trunk empty and it did not have me to cancel the glove box nor impact the passenger foot well.

And I am more than certain that it will stay with me and transition with me to the next car if it will be small car.

As for the JOYING and the PRIMA - at the next update.

 

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Excellent review!
 
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Discussion Starter #13
I'll continue with a short Review regarding the JOYING SPDIF HU

Most chineese head units I've experienced, the ones up to 2010 - poor sound quality, very low signal comming out of the RCA outputs - in fact it is almost always a must to install a line driver if you want to get decent output.
The build quality is usually such that.. let's not speak to much about it I'll just say that they sometimes have their own interpretation what 7inch or a double DIN really is...
And the durability and life span - if you made it through one year without having to send the unit for repair or after two years all sort of weird behavior starts - such as Radio starting to work without any reasons (TA is turned off) and jumping from band to band or CD that refuses to read and so on, screen going craze yada yada yada - then you were lucky.

Some of the Chinese head units after that period are pretty decent but still the HW is not as strong as its technical sheet claims it to be, Navigation gets stuck or does not start within the first couple of minutes and issues such as memory leaks, freezes and crashes are still quite common to most of them.

The JOYING up so far seems to be an exception - Build quality seems better, the screen is just awesome!
Sound quality - SPDIF, I have no complaints at all. I have not tested the RCA output but friends that did noted that they are with good output and clean.
The AHD rear view cam has outstanding image quality even at night - I get full color picture and down to details.

Waze (Nav) works smooth! fast!
No crashes no slowing down of performance - nada.

The DSP - I am using just a bit of the equalizer and it seems to be very punctual - easy to use.

So far I seem to like it more and more every day that passes by - how durable will it be? don't know but the manufacturer provide a full 2 years warranty - for what I paid for, I am happy.


The Prima - The prima integrator transitioned from my former car and there I've had some annoying issues with it - mostly 2 issues:

1. Once in a month or so it would turn off after ignition and won't turn on until I've pulled the fuse from it - since it was installed under the seat, it was not much of a big deal but very annoying on a hot day or when in a rush and I just wanted to get up and go...

This came out to be a known issue and during the technical model stages at home I've updated the firmware and this issue is now resolve - I hope... still it is now installed even more accessible so in the worst case...

2. I was streaming the music via BT using a Belkin SongStream at the former car and from some reason the Prima did not output sound if it was turned on after the belkin was turned on - so I 've had to turn off the prima each time after ignition and then turn it back on while making sure I am playing music through the Belkin - VERY ANNOYING but still the sound was so good it was worth it.

Both of these issues are now fully eliminated - I just turn the ignition on and go...

FullDA and user experience issues

I am using FullDA typologies for over a decade now and at each and every car I've had user experience issues to be the most annoying part of it -

At the corolla and the Avensis I've had a car PC and the up time was the hard part not to mention that it is a PC in a car at a country that has 300 days of hot to scorching sun...
Then I transitioned to a Nexus7 with customer ROM and a USB converter - every few days the Tablet would leak memory so severe it would require a full restart.

The bit One as well has that issue at which it does not always turn on and has to be unplugged - but my bit one is so old that I am really afraid trying to upgrade its firmware so I just leave with it - its RCA outputs for example stopped outputting this year (its over a decade old) and only its FullDA networks seems to work.

And after that I've just stopped using HU's, PC or tablets I am simply using BT high quality receivers such as the Mosconi AMAS and the Belkin but when doing so - I have to use external headsets and each time only one of them connects automatically so automation is needed and so on and so on.

Hard to live with... Until now - The Joying really changed the game for me and put me back to the start and drive experience that any conventional HU grants.


Today on the road to work I've randomed accross a Tarja (night wish) - The regin, but it was the orchestral version - swEEt!


At the next pot I will take you elsewhere with some reference music that is local to me.
 

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Which model of joying you have? (cpu, ram...) Usually speed /freeze depend of hardware. Most cheap chinese HU comes with 2 or even 1 gb memory ram and poor cpu/gpu that is inadeguate to manage the software, alla apps all functions.
 

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Good question!
 
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Discussion Starter #16
Which model of joying you have? (cpu, ram...) Usually speed /freeze depend of hardware. Most cheap chinese HU comes with 2 or even 1 gb memory ram and poor cpu/gpu that is inadeguate to manage the software, alla apps all functions.
These are the CPU and RAM:

Key features
1. OS: Android 8.1.0.
2. CPU: Intel SC9853 Octa-core 1.8GHZ.
3. RAM: 4GB; ROM: 64GB.

It is flying! its not my first chineese head unit it is the fifth or the sixth for the least, I know what you are talking about - this one is way ahead of the ones I've had before.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
As well - the following data

7. Bluetooth version is 4.2, supports bluetooth phone call and music.
8. The head unit comes with ISO harness, there is KEY1 and KEY2 on the harness, they are steering wheel control wires, if your car does not have Can-Bus, you can find out your car steering wheel control wires connect correspondingly, then your car steering wheel control buttons will work well.

9. Support reverse camera/front camera/OBD2/TPMS/DAB+, you need to buy seperately.

10. Amplifier chip: TDA7851.
Radio chip: NXP6686.
DSP chip: ROHM32017.


The model name is

  • Model Name: JY-UOS03N4GS/JY-UOS01N4GS
 

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Thanks for the info!
It's obviously the hardwares is pretty good!
Have you had experience with usb OTG? I'm thinking about send it to Helix usb input, should be even better than coaxial.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Well it has two USB outputs and one of them is indeed marked as OTG so I would expect it to support USB AUDIO and USB HOST as it is Android 8.x

At the former car I've had a "Syncope" head unit (android 8.x two with 2GB RAM and a quad core for the best of my recall) which also performed quite well and I plugged in to it my HifiMeDIY Sabre DAC (USB converter) through a USB isolator by hifimediy and for a while it worked very well! but the only two drawbacks were -

1. The headset audio could not be channeled by USB audio so for head set I still needed to use an exetrnal one...
2. After several weeks the USB socket burnt out and could not power it up anymore so it would be best to use a USB converter that can support an external power source.

Bottom line - I don't think its the way to go although it did definitely work!

USB Audio player PRO worked well with it by the way. I refer to the android application that lets you bypass the ALSA and bit stream directly from the codec to the USB jack through the k.mixer. (but then nothing else from the Android's sound would work other than the USB Audio Player PRO codec).

Hope it helps.
 
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Nice deck! What's the output voltage?
 
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