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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Need some help narrowing down what 8 channel amp to go with. It will be going in a 2012 X5 for use with Hertz ML700.3 mids, MP 25 tweets, and Audsion BMW under seat woofers. Narrowed it down to Audison AP F8.9 bit or the JL VXi 800/8.

From what I can find it looks like the Audison has more OEM integration options and has prefabbed cable packs to make the amp plug and play. However, the DSP functions don't seem as intuitive as the JL and the software only works with PC and I have Mac.

JL seems more intuitive and works with Mac, but will require me to do all the wiring. Not a big negative since that's what I'm use to doing typically anyway.

So, my question is, given the similarities between them, is there really any reason to go with one over the other? I can probably get my hands on a PC if the Audison is really the better option. Are there any sound quality differences between them?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Guess I should add that I will be running the mids and under seat through bandpass crossover. Bass will be handled by a Hertz MP 300 D2.3 through a JL XD 1000/1 as I was told I can use this amp and retain DSP with either amp.
 

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I'm not looking for a separate DSP. I'm looking at these two options because of the built in DSP they come with and want any input on these two options specifically.
I understand you want a built in DSP, this unit has that along with an 8 channel amp. Is highly regarded in this community as a top performer. I was just seeing if you had seen that as an option?

 

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The most important question here is what year/make/model and what audio trim level (I understand BMW, but there are many variables to that). Without that info, it's hard to recommend either of the two, which have their own limitations in different areas. That said, I'm with Mike. The Helix V Eight Mk2 is much better and will do everything the original options do and more. We only use the Helix processors in my shop because they will handle everything any other processor can, so long as it has enough inputs/outputs for the situation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I understand you want a built in DSP, this unit has that along with an 8 channel amp. Is highly regarded in this community as a top performer. I was just seeing if you had seen that as an option?

Apologies, though that was one of their standalone DSP units.
 

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The most important question here is what year/make/model and what audio trim level (I understand BMW, but there are many variables to that). Without that info, it's hard to recommend either of the two, which have their own limitations in different areas. That said, I'm with Mike. The Helix V Eight Mk2 is much better and will do everything the original options do and more. We only use the Helix processors in my shop because they will handle everything any other processor can, so long as it has enough inputs/outputs for the situation.
Looking at this amp, here are my concerns; channels aren't stated as being bridgeable. If they aren't then there's no sense in using an 8 channel for my setup. Need enough power for the under seat subs. Also doesn't say whether this is compatible with Mac or not. I know the Helix DSPs have a great reputation and have considered adding one on my other car since I don't feel like replacing the amps on that car.

As for the X5, it has the base US system with separate OEM amp. The CIC system I believe. There is no optical line that I can see.

I spoke with someone at Audison/Hertz trying to figure out an option for replacing the under seat subs as my original thought was the Hertz SV 200L in a custom enclosure crossed over from roughly 100-500. He talked me into the Audison direct replacement subs but wasn't able to provide a spec sheet showing response from 100-500 which is a concern since they aren't meant to be used past 500 at all. So if anyone has a better option for something to fill that part of the frequency range I'm all ears.
 

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Looking at this amp, here are my concerns; channels aren't stated as being bridgeable
Why do you need a bridgeable amplifier? 75 watts is much more than most people think.

. If they aren't then there's no sense in using an 8 channel for my setup. Need enough power for the under seat subs. Also doesn't say whether this is compatible with Mac or not. I know the Helix DSPs have a great reputation and have considered adding one on my other car since I don't feel like replacing the amps on that car.
I know its a BMW, but you still haven't mentioned which model/year/trim. There is definitely still sense in using an 8 channel. Many BMW's you need to retain rear speakers due to backup sensors alone. But if you select the correct underseat sub, you can get a 2-ohm final impedance and get 120 watts to each. That is more than enough to a BMW underseat sub. Or you can use a Match Up8 or Up10 and get 160 watts on those channels. But again, I still need to know which year/model/trim to tell you what actually works here.



As for the X5, it has the base US system with separate OEM amp. The CIC system I believe. There is no optical line that I can see.
There it is. But what year? if CIC, probably around 2010? If so, Match Speakers (2 ohm for underseat) with a Match or Helix amplifier. No better option for something simple.


I spoke with someone at Audison/Hertz trying to figure out an option for replacing the under seat subs as my original thought was the Hertz SV 200L in a custom enclosure crossed over from roughly 100-500. He talked me into the Audison direct replacement subs but wasn't able to provide a spec sheet showing response from 100-500 which is a concern since they aren't meant to be used past 500 at all. So if anyone has a better option for something to fill that part of the frequency range I'm all ears.
Why do you need to play them up to 500hz?
 

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I have hundreds of hours dealing with VXi (I run the 800/8 in my ZO6). It's a very capable DSP. That said, there are some things it doesn't do as easily as other DSPs...but honestly it has done everything we've ever asked of it. And one thing is does better than Helix is shift through presets. I push the knob in and the next preset is instantly there. With Helix, there's about a 30 second delay as it switches over. Not a fan of that. That said, also have many hours on the Helix. If you'd like to discuss sometime, PM me and I'll give you my number. I love talking about this stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Why do you need a bridgeable amplifier? 75 watts is much more than most people think.



I know its a BMW, but you still haven't mentioned which model/year/trim. There is definitely still sense in using an 8 channel. Many BMW's you need to retain rear speakers due to backup sensors alone. But if you select the correct underseat sub, you can get a 2-ohm final impedance and get 120 watts to each. That is more than enough to a BMW underseat sub. Or you can use a Match Up8 or Up10 and get 160 watts on those channels. But again, I still need to know which year/model/trim to tell you what actually works here.





There it is. But what year? if CIC, probably around 2010? If so, Match Speakers (2 ohm for underseat) with a Match or Helix amplifier. No better option for something simple.




Why do you need to play them up to 500hz?
In the first post I mentioned it's a 2012. If you need to be more specific, it is an X5 35D Sport Active. Does not have the rear pillar tweeters.

I am thinking somewhere between 400-500hz because i want to use this as a mid bass speaker, not a true sub. that will be handled by the sub and amp i mentioned in the second post. i want this to fill the area that the 3" door speakers will have trouble with. I am not someone who goes for high power. But I also know that there's an optimal range where the speaker sounds best.

I will be running the rear doors off the head unit and keeping them mostly faded out. I don't have very many passengers with me often, so I am more concerned with the front sound stage. I may eventually add a better rear door speaker, but it isn't that important for now. If you look at my first two posts you will be able to see what I am planning to install. Since you can't bridge the channels in the Helix amp, does it allow for mixed impedance? The ability to run some channels at 4ohm and some at 2ohm?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I have hundreds of hours dealing with VXi (I run the 800/8 in my ZO6). It's a very capable DSP. That said, there are some things it doesn't do as easily as other DSPs...but honestly it has done everything we've ever asked of it. And one thing is does better than Helix is shift through presets. I push the knob in and the next preset is instantly there. With Helix, there's about a 30 second delay as it switches over. Not a fan of that. That said, also have many hours on the Helix. If you'd like to discuss sometime, PM me and I'll give you my number. I love talking about this stuff.
Thanks for this. I will will PM you when I'm not at work.
 

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In the first post I mentioned it's a 2012. If you need to be more specific, it is an X5 35D Sport Active. Does not have the rear pillar tweeters.

I am thinking somewhere between 400-500hz because i want to use this as a mid bass speaker, not a true sub. that will be handled by the sub and amp i mentioned in the second post. i want this to fill the area that the 3" door speakers will have trouble with. I am not someone who goes for high power. But I also know that there's an optimal range where the speaker sounds best.

I will be running the rear doors off the head unit and keeping them mostly faded out. I don't have very many passengers with me often, so I am more concerned with the front sound stage. I may eventually add a better rear door speaker, but it isn't that important for now. If you look at my first two posts you will be able to see what I am planning to install. Since you can't bridge the channels in the Helix amp, does it allow for mixed impedance? The ability to run some channels at 4ohm and some at 2ohm?
Ah, sorry. I must have missed the part that said it was a 2012. So I am very familiar with these systems. No need to run the midbass up to 500hz. It won't even run up to 500hz in that location. A 4" midrange in the door can cross at 200hz with a 24db slope no problem. That said, do NOT run the rears off the head unit, but everything else off of a processor. Bad idea. And yes, the Helix allows for mixed impedance.
 

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Ah, sorry. I must have missed the part that said it was a 2012. So I am very familiar with these systems. No need to run the midbass up to 500hz. It won't even run up to 500hz in that location. A 4" midrange in the door can cross at 200hz with a 24db slope no problem. That said, do NOT run the rears off the head unit, but everything else off of a processor. Bad idea. And yes, the Helix allows for mixed impedance.
being able to run mixed impedance definitely puts it in the running. crossing over the door speakers at 200hz doesn't sound appealing since the sub will most likely be crossed over at 100-125hz. that leaves a fair sized dead area. the limited size on the door speakers is why i'm trying to find a good mid bass option to fill the area between the sub and the doors. only other option would be to build out the door pocket for something like the ML 1800. but i'd prefer not to get into doing custom fitment other than making adapter rings for the existing locations.
 

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being able to run mixed impedance definitely puts it in the running. crossing over the door speakers at 200hz doesn't sound appealing since the sub will most likely be crossed over at 100-125hz. that leaves a fair sized dead area. the limited size on the door speakers is why i'm trying to find a good mid bass option to fill the area between the sub and the doors. only other option would be to build out the door pocket for something like the ML 1800. but i'd prefer not to get into doing custom fitment other than making adapter rings for the existing locations.
Underseat woofers up to 200, doors from 200 to 3000, tweeters from 3000 up
 
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