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2004 Volvo s80
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a choice now to buy very cheaply.
4x ground zero gzck 250spl
Or
4x b2 rage 10pwr

I will make a trunk wall with 2x soundqubed hdx315 with an sd8k to power them.
I have eminence alpha 6cbmra with 100w each as midrange.
And prv d280ti with dayton h07e horns as tweeters.

I want as good of SQ as I can get while still maintaining high sensitivity.

Which ones should I buy? The gz seem to play lower, but the b2 seem to play louder. Some say b2 has better sound quality?
They should play from 60hz or 80hz to 600hz loud and linearly.
Right now I have 2x300w @2 ohm for them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Or how big difference would it be if I got one GZCW 12-75SPL in each door? With the same power and maybe 20-25l of airspace.
 

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the gzck's sound great for what they are, but i wouldnt call them sq.... unfortunately i cant compare to others. i do like recommending the gzcc's for those who say they care about sq but actually care more about getting loud, they can be eq'd to sound alright, but theyll never have the detail of an sq speaker set
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
OK nice. It seems I can only buy one pair of the gzck 250spl.
Has anyone tried the B2 rage 10PWR? Seems like no one has.
Wouldn't the GZCW 12-75SPL fall in the same class in sq as the gzck?
They are newer and "improved". Someone played a 144dB with them in sealed doors here in Finland.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
And have you tried them against pa brands like b&c, eminence, fane, beyma etc ?
 

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i used some hertz sv165 neos, preferred them sq wise to the gz's, but theyre in the same car now, and damn do they compliment well, the car is ALMOST sq good at this point... ive heard some prv's, didnt spend enough time with them to build an opinion, but wasnt disappointed in the literally 2 minutes i spent setting gains and crossovers on the amp by ear in a massive rush. no personal exp with beyma, but heard some really good things. i want to get my hands on the euphoria xpert line, they look interesting. @Eric Stevens, who's opinion is worth 100x what mine is, suggested the brand faital to me in the past, ended up going with his horns instead, so no hands on, but he's the only guy in audio who if they say something i disagree with, i just ask why i had it wrong, lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yeah in the start I was going with the Hertz 8" mid-basses. Then it all spiraled out of hands...
I'm thinking of 12" mid-basses now...
Faital is a personal favorite of mine as well.
Haven't heard much but they give out all the necessary parameters and graphs etc...
I was going to go with dual faital 10FE200s, but I read somewhere that their Xmax was wrongly calculated and not really what was advertised.
 

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I was going to go with dual faital 10FE200s, but I read somewhere that their Xmax was wrongly calculated and not really what was advertised.
With 2 10" midbass you wont need much excursion, the Faital xmax is done correctly but using a formula, to compare correctly just use coil overhang which is height of voice coil - height of air gap / 2. The 10fe200 is about 2.5 mm or 3mm one way which with 2 is more than enough for a SQ system
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
With 2 10" midbass you wont need much excursion, the Faital xmax is done correctly but using a formula, to compare correctly just use coil overhang which is height of voice coil - height of air gap / 2. The 10fe200 is about 2.5 mm or 3mm one way which with 2 is more than enough for a SQ system
Okay thanx for the clarification.
Do all of the faital drivers use the "wrong" formula?
What other brands use the wrong formula? Beyma and SB audience have pretty good xmaxes on their 10" and 12" mids.
For an sq system it would be plenty, but this is an sql setup. Supposed to play very loud, but also very good sound quality. I'm pushing a minimum of rated 150wrms to each midbass. I might upgrade that to 400w per midbass to get more dynamics and headroom.
 

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Okay thanx for the clarification.
Do all of the faital drivers use the "wrong" formula?
What other brands use the wrong formula? Beyma and SB audience have pretty good xmaxes on their 10" and 12" mids.
For an sq system it would be plenty, but this is an sql setup. Supposed to play very loud, but also very good sound quality. I'm pushing a minimum of rated 150wrms to each midbass. I might upgrade that to 400w per midbass to get more dynamics and headroom.
Some do, some dont, some just make the **** up. Hence the get the coil overhang and compare that way. All depends on the high pass crossover settings. At above 90 Hz you would be fine at high power but the small VC is going to have some serious compressiion at 400 watts so wont achieve much more output.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Some do, some dont, some just make the **** up. Hence the get the coil overhang and compare that way. All depends on the high pass crossover settings. At above 90 Hz you would be fine at high power but the small VC is going to have some serious compressiion at 400 watts so wont achieve much more output.
Yeah, that's about why I ruled it out.
I would want the midbass to play as low as possible. like a HPF of 60Hz is fine, but 50Hz or 40Hz would be alot better.
I also found some RCF mb12n251 that model really well. They "only" have 5mm of xmax, but I've heard it's a quality brand.
 

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Yeah, that's about why I ruled it out.
I would want the midbass to play as low as possible. like a HPF of 60Hz is fine, but 50Hz or 40Hz would be alot better.
I also found some RCF mb12n251 that model really well. They "only" have 5mm of xmax, but I've heard it's a quality brand.
Below 80 Hz is considered Sub-Bass btw..... No pro audio driver intended to be a midbass will play high levels below 60 to 70 hz unless its a 15" and even then with less output than above 60 hz. Lowest I target for portable rave style systems which is what I think your after is 70 t0 80 Hz highpass @ 24dB LR. RCF is good
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Yeah, I want a rave system, but I want it to also be an SQ system for my long alone drives. And in SQ, 40-50Hz is usually considered sub-bass.
I would want so that bass comes from the front and not the back.
But I think I found some gold mines:

Oberton 12B450
Not as impressive but still very good. Almost 8mm of Xmax and 99dB efficiency. 120€/driver, not bad...

Lavoce WAF123,03
10mm of Xmax :eek:, and 99dB efficiency. It even has a 3" voice coil with low Le. And its a hundred bucks per driver.
This one doesn't even need a HPF on 400W...
 

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Lavoce has overhang of 5mm one way as does the Oberton. The Xmax is using the same formula used by Faital. This is why for comparison you need to look at winding height and gap height. Both list Xmax of 7.5mm.

Lavoce Fs is 65 Hz and absolutely wont work to 40 and I would suggest 70 Hz as an absolute minimum . Oberton is 46 so it could work well to 55-60 hz range for moderate power jamming but not for Portable rave maximum output
 

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FYI....having to low pass subwoofers at 50 Hz to get upfront bass is the product of incorrect tuning, crappy installation, or subwoofers/midbass drivers not up to the task of decent SQ. The low crossover frequency is just a band-aid covering up the real problem and it will sound and perform way better when done correctly and the band aid is no longer needed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
But if I tune with e.g. A harman curve, the sub is playing a little hot. Should I not cross it over lower then what I set my midbass hpf to?

Those lavoces had an xmech of 15mm, so for rave I would calculate it is fine up to 15mm as it wont even reach that when Bl starts fading out?

But as you said, you run your subs up to 70hz, with front playing down to 45hz... The front speakers will pull it to the front pretty well then, but if I get like no output under 70hz from midbass, I cant imagine how I would get the sub sound coming from the front even how good I eq and time align it.

There was also a neo version of the lavoces, but it had less xmax?

But those obertons would be rather good then? If seemingly everyone calculates xmax the same way. Does Beyma do that?
 

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Xmech is simply diaphragm movement before damage. Lavoce Bl is useable to the 7.5mm range and it has 5 mm of travel before the coil is leaving the gap.

Oberton has similar xmax to the Lavoce. To try and compare apples to apples use voice coil and gap specs not rated xmax. Even then its not going to tell you everything because compliance of the suspension can dominate and you will neverf get all the xmax a driver is rated for .
 

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bass is non-directional. dont overlap youre midbass with your subs, i only play mine down to 45 because i have no sub
 
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