[drowssap]

I have been into SQ since forever but could never afford what I wanted. I have a tundra with PDX amp running type R tweets, 6x9's and coax for rear fill, stealthbox with 8W7 and JL HD750. I finally found some coin to build a system in my other car and bought some Dyn 110,430, and 650's. 10W7 sealed in the back and all JL HD amps. Now I am not a noob asking everyone here to tell me what I will or not like and just go on blind faith but after reading a thread on someones disappointment with the 650's I am a little concerned. I am running a P99 as the source. Would the MW172's compliment the system more than the 650's? Regardless of tune? Meaning if both were installed and tuned correctly...will I get more depth from the 172? I have gathered all of this stuff over the course of the entire year and I am now two weeks away from my install and I can't believe I possibly might be making a change! Any quality input is greatly appreciated! I think I need to call Jerry

 

[2010hummerguy]

I think I know which user/install you are referring to. I would not take that user's experience with Esotar mids seriously whatsoever, it was 99% an issue with how they were installed and no fault of the driver itself...Jerry and many others here will tell you the same thing. These are the single best 6.5's I've used in a car EVER. The only way I'd get rid of them is if I were to upgrade to 3-way front with 430's and MW182 woofers but that won't be happening anytime soon...and then the 650's would go in my other car. No way I'm ever selling these things

 

[Lycancatt]

seconded. theres a car here in ca that has a pair of 650s per door and its mind blowingly good.

 

[drowssap]

Your responses are not only appreciated but are helping! I swear I thought I was sensing some palpitations in my chest! It was really hard for me to find places to hear this stuff in person. I was only able to hear the 110's but in a home set up. I was not set on using all Dyn equipment but wanted 3 way active and I just ended up deciding on the 430's and 650's and crossed my fingers! Thought I would just add a little fun to this and tell you that this is all going into a prius! It has the most beautiful pillar set up with a window / cavity for installing the 110's and 430's on axis!

 

[Lycancatt]

install and tuning is absolutely key. great speakers can sound totally aweful in some cars and totally right in others..just goes to show its 90 percent tuning/install knowledge and 10 percent gear choice

 

[2010hummerguy]

LOL that is going to be one badass Prius build. Definitely looking forward to the build progress!

 

[Hanatsu]

Those Dyn's are great drivers. I wouldn't say they are the best drivers ever though. They are on par with the better offerings from Seas/Scan-Speak etc.

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[Huckleberry Sound]

install and tuning is absolutely key. great speakers can sound totally aweful in some cars and totally right in others..just goes to show its 90 percent tuning/install knowledge and 10 percent gear choice

People need to understand that this is key. I have seen people spend $K on products. Then go and get the cheapest amps they can kind, to the cheapest cables. Then to go and get it all installed by the garbage can man!

IF you are going to buy products above bar, products when you start spending a couple hundred per speaker and up. You need to put in the reinforcement.

Installation and Tuning is so key.

I love to cook. I have learned its not the groceries that are purchased. It boils down to the one in the kitchen who is cooking and spicing up the dish. Sure better groceries create better foods. But if the cook has no glue that flower and eggs need some butter. O CRAP!

 

[Hanatsu]

I'd rather go with $50 speakers and an optimized install/tune than getting high end speakers in the $1000 range. So I agree with that.

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[1fishman]

The way I see it is the 650 is a good midbass with very good midrange. But using it in a 3-way that great midrange capability is going to waste. So what you end up with is a decent 6.5" midbass driver. At 4mm linear Xmax is just ok not great. iirc it has a very high xmech but it's not ideal to be pushing it that hard. The mw172 has the same xmax and sd and would be a cheaper option with the same midbass capability if kept within the xmax range. Imo if you can fit the mw182 that would be the better route in a 3-way setup if wanting to stick with dynaudio.
Not trying to steer you away from the 650 just giving something else to think about.

According to the literature.
The mw172 have Sd 180cm. The 650 have Sd 120mm.
Both have 9mm linear xmax.
The 650 have more mechanical xmax 21mm vs 15mm (i don't know what roll max mechanical xmax plays)

 

[2010hummerguy]

The way I see it is the 650 is a good midbass with very good midrange. But using it in a 3-way that great midrange capability is going to waste. So what you end up with is a decent 6.5" midbass driver. At 4mm linear Xmax is just ok not great. iirc it has a very high xmech but it's not ideal to be pushing it that hard. The mw172 has the same xmax and sd and would be a cheaper option with the same midbass capability if kept within the xmax range. Imo if you can fit the mw182 that would be the better route in a 3-way setup if wanting to stick with dynaudio.
Not trying to steer you away from the 650 just giving something else to think about.

If you have not used the 650 before, this is a tough statement to make. The 650 loves to be pushed and though it had very lackluster Klippel results, the real world performance is incredible; somehow it has world class midrange yet sounds like an 8" driver down low. And they only get better with more power...

What I especially love about the 650 is that it really doesn't care too much about how you install it as long as you give it room to move. They are happiest in a door with a decent baffle but that's about it, no other fanciness required.

 

[2010hummerguy]

So are you saying it was designed to be regularly pushed past xmax with the voice coil 6mm out of the gap to xmech? I wonder what the distortion looks like at that excursion.

I'm saying they need to be heard before making a judgment based solely on the Klippel tests.

 

[jasonjordan584]

You have to remember also a lot of sq cars don't have crazy midbass that you can feel at your chest. Every thing blends well but not deep impact from the midbass!

 

[Golden Ear]

Prius? Can't you fit an 8" in those doors? I agree that a driver like the 650 would be wasted since you're using the midrange which should be able to go down to around 300hz.

 

[SkizeR]

The e650 is a great driver, but using it in a 3 way is just leaving a lot of its performance on the table

 

[TOOSTUBBORN2FAIL]

According to the literature.
The mw172 have Sd 180cm. The 650 have Sd 120mm.
Both have 9mm linear xmax.
The 650 have more mechanical xmax 21mm vs 15mm (i don't know what roll max mechanical xmax plays)

Dyn rates their xmax as 2 way xmax, so that 9mm linear is really 4.5mm linear when you compare it to how other companies rate xmax, one way.

When the 650's were klippel tested, they came in at 3.6mm linear, one way.

I agree with the sentiments that it's an average midbass, great midrange. If your pushing it past 4mm of one way excursion, your hearing distortion. Some people like that.

 

[jasonjordan584]

Exactly! For 800 to 1000 dollars for a pair to me the midrange is not that good for the price!

 

[casey]

172 has the upper hand in cone area by 35% and same linear xmax. Ive been very happy with mine as long as you have 250+ watts to throw at them.

 

[DragonMouse]

..but doesn't Dynaudio recommend the X-over setting for these baby's to be set at 100Hz @ -6 dB? I see a lot of users crossing them at 60-ish Hz..

On the other hand, the E1200 is recommended for x-over LP 100Hz @ -6..

From my experience (so far), the 650 are very sensitive to any kind of power you give them, but it has to be clean power also. They were much "louder" than other speakers I tested on the same amp, same gain level, same X-over points, etc..

 

[quality_sound]

There is no such thing as clean power. Power is power.


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