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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So i installed my 8 in midbasses last week, and im very happy with the midbass output, and overall they sound pretty good.

However im having tons of issues with my stage, all of my lower vocals i can now easily localize to each speaker.
I running an active 4 way with the 8's in the doors playing 60-300 mid range in the kicks playing 300-2900 and tweets picking up at 3k both on axis.
I did not have this issue until i went to an 8" midbass and i cannot seem to find a solution.
I have tired playing with phase of all the speakers, when i turn them down to where the vocals are not as present im no longer happy with the midbass. Also tried no TA some TA and lots of TA, nothing has really yielded any help.
Ive also tried cutting 100-300 hz with no avail.

Anyone have any ideas?

Driver in question is a DLS ir8
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
18 db on midbass's and on the HP for the midrange.

Im not sure if my midrange will play that low, its a cdt es-04 in a sealed pod, ive also been thinking of venting these as well.

And the tweeter is a cdt es 01 all my processing is being done by my Zapco DCs
 

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So i installed my 8 in midbasses last week, and im very happy with the midbass output, and overall they sound pretty good.

However im having tons of issues with my stage, all of my lower vocals i can now easily localize to each speaker.
I running an active 4 way with the 8's in the doors playing 60-300 mid range in the kicks playing 300-2900 and tweets picking up at 3k both on axis.
I did not have this issue until i went to an 8" midbass and i cannot seem to find a solution.
I have tired playing with phase of all the speakers, when i turn them down to where the vocals are not as present im no longer happy with the midbass. Also tried no TA some TA and lots of TA, nothing has really yielded any help.
Ive also tried cutting 100-300 hz with no avail.

Anyone have any ideas?

Driver in question is a DLS ir8
- Do you have access to any frequency response measurement equipment? Computer-based or RTA?

- For the most part, T/A alignment should be measured, set, and left alone with perhaps just a bit of tweaking.

- How well are the drivers mounted? And are the doors dampened sufficiently?

If it were me, I'd set T/A, restore all drivers to relative polarity and see where I'm at by measuring and comparing frequency response of each mid bass, checking for amplitude variations, response anomalies, and how well each driver integrates in its' respective channel... that's where I'd start. :)

Btw, my doors play roughly the same frequency range as do yours, so I'm familiar with the challenge... it took persistence, but they've integrated very nicely. You can do it. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·


That is my door, heavily dampened.

And i did measure out for the TA it just didnt sound right so i started going by ear.
Perhaps my giant baffle is the culprit?
 

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The hardest part IME is getting the L side to stage and image as you're sitting on that side of the car and the path lengths are f'ed up.

So, turn off all R side speakers.

Play the L MB and MR together and listen to where that comes from. Flip phase and see if it moves (probably not, i'd guess).

Play the L MR and TW together and listen to where that's coming from. Repeat with phase.

Play the L MB and TW together in the same fashion

Play all together and try to get the L MB, MR and TW to play as high and centered to the stage as possible. You can play with phase, xover pts, slopes but I'd leave TA out until you put the R side in with it.

Once you have the L side figured out, then you can either do the exact same process on the R or just match the R to the left (same pts, slopes, phase ect).

Hope that helps.
 

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How about gain leveling? Perhaps it's too high on the midbass or too low on the other speakers. You may have varying driver efficiencies as well, so you'll need to compensate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I crossed the midranges at 425 an it has seemed to help, im going to go outside and try out foxpro;s suggestions
 

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I would check that first...
How about gain leveling? Perhaps it's too high on the midbass or too low on the other speakers. You may have varying driver efficiencies as well, so you'll need to compensate.
2. Then turn all T/A settings off

3. Try to listen to midbass only (lowpass off) then try and flip the polarity on the driver's side midbass - stage is higher, lower? Higher? Leave it as such.

4. Set the lowpass back to where you had it

5. Try to listen to the midbass and the midrange only (driver's side) and delay the midbass (sound should go higher and become less "localizable")

Last would be to check the response of your system, 160 to 400hz range can really lower our stage height

Hope that helps,
Kelvin
 

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but I'd leave TA out until you put the R side in with it.
Would you explain, please?

T/A has an effect on how drivers interact at the x-over point and that aspect can be optimized without regard to the other channel.

:)
 

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Try playing sine waves to determine if you have any vibrations or rattles. Otherwise it is likely a gain/freq response issue.
 

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I would check that first...



3. Try to listen to midbass only (lowpass off) then try and flip the polarity on the driver's side midbass - stage is higher, lower? Higher? Leave it as such.
Fail, what's the point of having a dedicated mid-bass if you re gonna run them out of phase and totally destroy the benefits of the low end they make?

Nobody has said this yet, I believe..... Maybe they are just a little too loud, back them down SLIGHTLY and see if that helps, it's a common side-effect of "new speaker syndrome"
 

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Fail, what's the point of having a dedicated mid-bass if you re gonna run them out of phase and totally destroy the benefits of the low end they make?

Nobody has said this yet, I believe..... Maybe they are just a little too loud, back them down SLIGHTLY and see if that helps, it's a common side-effect of "new speaker syndrome"
Well as you might know, the car is a really bad environment to have an audio setup... It works better in my car that way, that is why I posted my input on that matter.
Low vocals on the dash with driver's side midbass reversed and Midbass sound is much more fuller with impact when needed.

Just saying :p
Kelvin
 

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The CDTs will easily play well below 300Hz, especially in sealed pods. I went down to 80Hz for ****s and giggles. 200Hz worked well as long as you're not throwing a **** ton of power at them.

FWIW, neither my RS225s nor my ZR800s are localizable even playing well above 200Hz. I've been as high as 300Hz and still been able to center the image...and mine fire into my hips. Mids and tweets on the dash.
 

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My bad, you win.
Hmmm... seems to me that I mentioned measuring and comparing amplitude in my original post...

Along with the recommendation to restore relative polarity... ;)
 

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Would you explain, please?

T/A has an effect on how drivers interact at the x-over point and that aspect can be optimized without regard to the other channel.

:)
Ok, I agree with that. I just thought it might be less confusing to the guy to save that step till later. And Jedi is right...and so where you...gotta nail the power domain first IME,IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I figured out my issue, when i switched out midbass;s i had my 6 channel out, and apparently i wired the left midrange out of phase with the other. How im not sure since the wires are clearly labeled and color coded. It was the only thing i had not checked since i was sure there was no way.

So its better now, however my staging on the passenger side is now not as good, normally i would not care but my girlfriend even noticed.
So i lowered the crossover point on the passenger side and it has helped. However im not sure ive ever heard of anyone running different crossover points left vs. right. Is there a downside to this?
 
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