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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am currently running the Alpine W200 + H701 combo with the fiber optic connection and bluetooth adapter.

Things I don't like:
zipper noise on the H701
bad quality mic/bluetooth adapter
Can't EQ around 700hz band, parametric eq limited


These are the only requirements I'm setting for the new setup:
Double Din Head (additional processor control module ok if needed)
3way ok (4 way ideal)
Separate LR EQ, Time Allignment
Good bluetooth adapter
Navi would be nice but not required
Needs to read MP3s (Mp3s on DVD-Rs would be ideal)
Good cooling is a must (I overheated Eclipse and Sony units before)
Only one D/A conversion (headunit and processor need optical transfer abilities if bundled)

My first impulse is the Alpine W505 with the Navi/Bluetooth add on with either H701 or Audison Bit one. If anybody has any tips on this choice it would be awesome. Otherwise I'm not big on brands, anything goes.
 

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How about the Kenwood DNX8120 or whatever the new model is and a Zapco DSP6 or a pair? You could also just change the amps to Zapco DC refs ;) Sorry not really up to date on the double-din navi + extras :blush:

There really isnt anything better out there for stand alone processing unless you start modding pro gear IMO. Like you said some noise problems with the H701, Audison BitOne still some bugs need to be worked out, PPI DCX730 has problems as well, Macrom DSP is very expensive, Alpine H900 expensive, then you got the Ranes and Berhingers which need PS mods to work in cars.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
How about the Kenwood DNX8120 or whatever the new model is and a Zapco DSP6 or a pair? You could also just change the amps to Zapco DC refs ;) Sorry not really up to date on the double-din navi + extras :blush:

There really isnt anything better out there for stand alone processing unless you start modding pro gear IMO. Like you said some noise problems with the H701, Audison BitOne still some bugs need to be worked out, PPI DCX730 has problems as well, Macrom DSP is very expensive, Alpine H900 expensive, then you got the Ranes and Berhingers which need PS mods to work in cars.
So the Kenwood has really nice Navigation and Bluetooth operation from Garmin and Parrot respectively. It's basically what the Alpine unit is missing, top notch features offered built in by reputable 3rd parties. It plays Mp3s on DVD-R and that is always welcome. It does miss one important output however, the optical cable. This would lead to at least two D/A conversions unless a separate analog equalizer is used. Is there any Kenwood unit with optical cable that maintains the rest of these features?

Zapco DC reference amps suffer from the same multiple D/A conversions, unless you can enter optical cables into them. So does any option including a PPI DCX730, I had this unit and hated the D/A redundancy. I guess I'm really picky about this case, I will change the main requirements to reflect it.

So tonight I really took a good look at the DSP 6. Optical input usb interface, very good stuff. I'm a bit confused on how the volume would work without the optional control unit and using an optical input. I though you absolutely have to have a control unit for the volume from the processor, whereas Zapco keeps mentioning that laptop hookup is ideal and extension is a far second best. I wouldn't mind using RCA outs from a headunit for subwoofers to make this unit work with a 4 way setup. Is the EQ only parametric 10 band? I've also seen some overheating issues with this unit. I will have to get some real world performance checks.

Thanks! keep 'em coming!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
So Alpine just released the Parrot built blue tooth adapter and that is good news. Audison is reworking their Bit One board and pending a new release. If all goes well this might just be the combo to go for.

Alpine W505/p1, Audison Bit one, KCE 400BT Bluetooth module, Fiber optic transport.

I've noticed Pioneer units have optical out as well, but to get a decent size screen it's ubber expensive, plus they've had some eject mechanism problems over the years. Navi would be better than Alpine though.
 

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So tonight I really took a good look at the DSP 6. Optical input usb interface, very good stuff. I'm a bit confused on how the volume would work without the optional control unit and using an optical input. I though you absolutely have to have a control unit for the volume from the processor, whereas Zapco keeps mentioning that laptop hookup is ideal and extension is a far second best.

Thanks! keep 'em coming!
If you use the optical input on the zapco dsp-6 then you have to buy a drc-sl to control volume. I am going to be running 2 head units cause I am having similar problems finding everything I would want as well. I am running a Kenwood DNX8120 it is great and has good features although I would suggest upgrading to a better mic if you go with them. I am not 100% that the mic is the problem. All I know is if when I talk to people that they say I sound like I am in a garbage can or a tunnel. As far as I know no kenwood model up to date has optical out. If you do decide to get the kenwood and have mic problem from other people hearing you then check out this mic. http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite/productdetail.asp?transid=005213
 

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Discussion Starter #6
That sounds like the problem I have with my Alpine, it's generally low output and thin sounding for the other person. I really like the Kenwood unit but it does lack the optical hmm... I guess it's down to the Pioneer vs. Alpine if I want optical.
 

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Give Robert a call on the DSP6.

Idea that someone else had.

HU that fits your needs, optical into a Orion or A/D/S DEQ30 digital out to a DSP6 stays in the digital domain until the amp. You get 30 bands L/R with the DEQ30 on top of the 10 band PEQ per channel in the DSP6.

Kirk Profitt has a DSP6 stacked in front of his DC amps for more EQ options also.

In the Prelude we are kicking around the idea of a Denon A100 digital out to a DEQ30 into 2 x DSP6 feeding 6 DC amps. The Denon from my understanding would then handle the volume control.

There are many ways to skin this cat.

I would also PM "theotherhatedguy" Randy on here he has done some crazy stuff with the Zapco stuff or Matt Roberts. They may have some ideas that fit your needs perfectly or be able to give you some more options to accomplish it.

The DC amps are also 10 band PEQ per channel, so on a 2 channel that is 20 bands or 10 per channel.

Also Zapco does keep doing updates so this may continue to increase over time. The DSP8 should be getting close to be released also if you can wait for awhile.

Robert might also be whiling to work with you on a mod into the amp i.e. digital optical. Thats the great thing about Zapco is they are whiling to do mods many times if you are whiling to pay for it like Zed, LP ect.

I say give Robert a call and see what can be done for your volume control and optical desires.

Really liking you idea on this. Goodluck, will be watching to see what you decide to do.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Give Robert a call on the DSP6.

Idea that someone else had.

HU that fits your needs, optical into a Orion or A/D/S DEQ30 digital out to a DSP6 stays in the digital domain until the amp. You get 30 bands L/R with the DEQ30 on top of the 10 band PEQ per channel in the DSP6.

Kirk Profitt has a DSP6 stacked in front of his DC amps for more EQ options also.

In the Prelude we are kicking around the idea of a Denon A100 digital out to a DEQ30 into 2 x DSP6 feeding 6 DC amps. The Denon from my understanding would then handle the volume control.

There are many ways to skin this cat.

I would also PM "theotherhatedguy" Randy on here he has done some crazy stuff with the Zapco stuff or Matt Roberts. They may have some ideas that fit your needs perfectly or be able to give you some more options to accomplish it.

The DC amps are also 10 band PEQ per channel, so on a 2 channel that is 20 bands or 10 per channel.

Also Zapco does keep doing updates so this may continue to increase over time. The DSP8 should be getting close to be released also if you can wait for awhile.

Robert might also be whiling to work with you on a mod into the amp i.e. digital optical. Thats the great thing about Zapco is they are whiling to do mods many times if you are whiling to pay for it like Zed, LP ect.

I say give Robert a call and see what can be done for your volume control and optical desires.

Really liking you idea on this. Goodluck, will be watching to see what you decide to do.
Not a big fan of Orion gear but I could double up two DSP 6 units for increased options. I could then have a 4 way all digital and double up the midrange and tweeter channels for 20 bands parametric which would be killer. The downside is you would have to have two DSP 6 controllers, 2 units, I'm trying to simplify and reduce car weight at the same time while increasing options :D

Now what is this DSP 8 you talk of, 4 way processor?
 

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Not a big fan of Orion gear but I could double up two DSP 6 units for increased options. I could then have a 4 way all digital and double up the midrange and tweeter channels for 20 bands parametric which would be killer. The downside is you would have to have two DSP 6 controllers, 2 units, I'm trying to simplify and reduce car weight at the same time while increasing options :D

Now what is this DSP 8 you talk of, 4 way processor?
2008 model Kenwood Reference amps.
 

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Yes the DSP8 is a 4way. No specs have been released as of yet but I have spoken with Robert @ Zapco and it is coming to market.

Those DSP6 do not weight that much.LOL

That is one of the few Orion pieces that I like, they are just hard to find complete with everything.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
2008 model Kenwood Reference amps.
You mean for saving weight? I'm staying away from class D amplifers, the only one I could find was a class D. My idea of a light weight amplifier is a Class A/B with aluminum heatsink and no preamp. I don't want to loose the guns :p

Yes the DSP8 is a 4way. No specs have been released as of yet but I have spoken with Robert @ Zapco and it is coming to market.

Those DSP6 do not weight that much.LOL

That is one of the few Orion pieces that I like, they are just hard to find complete with everything.
You drive a 99 lude so you basically have the same ride I got. I have an H22a swap but even so, there isn't a lot of torque. There are two other areas where Car audio infringes the space of motorsport, the two controllers take the space of what would otherwise be the location of a wideband and EGR gauge. An extra unit may not weigh much but wiring gets more complicated and removing the sub box for hot laping days becomes more cumbersome.
 

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You mean for saving weight? I'm staying away from class D amplifers, the only one I could find was a class D. My idea of a light weight amplifier is a Class A/B with aluminum heatsink and no preamp. I don't want to loose the guns :p
Yes, they are class D.

These amps,however,include a built-in DSP that features t/a,e.q.,and xovers. Pretty damn sophisticated if you ask me.

They do lack the ability to tune from the seat and I assume your looking for that ability.

Good Luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yes, they are class D.

These amps,however,include a built-in DSP that features t/a,e.q.,and xovers. Pretty damn sophisticated if you ask me.

They do lack the ability to tune from the seat and I assume your looking for that ability.

Good Luck!
Tunning from the seat is nice but not essential. Trying to eliminate multiple D/A conversions is another story.

I just played around with a Bit one today. This one unit didn't seem to have any problems. The laptop interface looked really easy to work with. The graphic EQ is nice, I particularly liked the +- 12db EQ. boost levels and 48db slopes.

It didn't however have enough bands available in the midrange 200hz to 1000hz. I feel this is where the Zapco unit would shine. However since the use of the volume knob on the control unit is necessary I could not use the Zapco DSP6 and RCA's out of the headunit for sub only. Two DSP 6 would be a must.
 

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How about a carputer? ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
How about a carputer? ;)
Gooooood question. :cool:

let's see, I do have A/C cooling for the amp rack so cooling would be a non issue.

I do like to have the optical drive up front so I would have to install a tray somewhere in the dash, I don't think they make a tray behind the screen setup, so that would be a negative.

Boot up time is still too long from what I know compared to regular combo units.

But, the on board harddrive would be really really nice.

The ability to hook up my car computer - Hondata up to it, tune without needing to bring my laptop to the car or need aditional controlers up front for volume AWESOME. I'll look into it.
 

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if you were not requiring a double din...i have a p9 combo that will go up for sale once i get my 50 posts...
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Standard Engine 3.0L I6 2.2L I4
Standard Transmission 6 Speed Manual 5 Speed Manual
Cylinders 6 4
Horsepower @RPM [email protected] [email protected]
Fuel Economy Cty/Hwy 18 / 28 22/30
Number of Valves 24 16
Overdrive Transmission Yes yes
Compression 10.7:1 10.6:1
Displacement 2996 2156

Brakes (Front) Disc Disc
Brakes (Rear) Disc Disc
Driveline Rear Wheel Drive FWD
Suspension (Front) Independent Double Wisbone
Suspension (Rear) Independent Multi link independent
Tire Width 225 mm 225mm Zrated Nittos
Tire wheel Diameter 17 in. 18 in.

Curb Weight MT 3351 3200lb w/o sub rack, 3350 w
Height 54.9 52.5
Length 181.1 186.8
Weight Distribution MT (Front) 50 58
Weight Distribution MT (Rear) 50 42
Wheelbase 108.7 105.1

I was nice and used the current generation BMW 328I as a comparison. Notice my decade old Honda, with a 15year old engine that is 2/3 the size of the BMW engine, with a 7 amp, 5 way beast of a setup is just as potent from a technical point of view. Take this smiley back to your E46 fanatics forum :kaboom:
 

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I was nice and used the current generation BMW 328I as a comparison. Notice my decade old Honda, with a 15year old engine that is 2/3 the size of the BMW engine, with a 7 amp, 5 way beast of a setup is just as potent from a technical point of view. Take this smiley back to your E46 fanatics forum :kaboom:
I don't get it... Wait what? As potent from a technical point of view? How??? :confused: :confused:

First of all you're comparing an obviously extensively modified car with a limited-run engine swapped in that's not even made anymore vs. a completely stock off the showroom floor luxury/sports car.

So it's better from a technical point of view because it has 5 more hp? And it's even modified past that, as from what I can tell the most powerful H22A only makes 217hp.

And where it really counts, it falls short in just about every way:

Driveline Rear Wheel Drive FWD
Weight Distribution MT (Front) 50 58
Weight Distribution MT (Rear) 50 42
Wheelbase 108.7 105.1
But again, modified old econobox car vs. new luxury-focused completely stock car... I have literally no idea what's going on here :confused:

Anyway... my point remains... I cannot believe you are being picky about the weight of a 4lb processor when you have so many more places you could take completely unnecessary weight off.

It's like a fat guy with a carbon fiber hood... seriously...
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I don't get it... Wait what? As potent from a technical point of view? How??? :confused: :confused:

First of all you're comparing an obviously extensively modified car with a limited-run engine swapped in that's not even made anymore vs. a completely stock off the showroom floor luxury/sports car.

So it's better from a technical point of view because it has 5 more hp? And it's even modified past that, as from what I can tell the most powerful H22A only makes 217hp.

And where it really counts, it falls short in just about every way:



But again, modified old econobox car vs. new luxury-focused completely stock car... I have literally no idea what's going on here :confused:

Anyway... my point remains... I cannot believe you are being picky about the weight of a 4lb processor when you have so many more places you could take completely unnecessary weight off.

It's like a fat guy with a carbon fiber hood... seriously...
I had no intention of comparing luxury with economy with sports, Honda to BMW etc. I deduced you drive some sort of a 3 series BMW. The point was, my car fully loaded with audio gear weighs about as much as the modern 3 series "luxury/sports" car. You argue my car is not good enough for taking around the bends then guess what, neither is yours.


I don't see why you are so confused about the technical points. The engine is the heart of the car, my motor is at least as able as that 2009 3.0L BMW powerplant, what it looses in a few pounds of torque makes up by having a broader powerband and a lighter/more compact body. The chassis is clad with a double wishbone suspension and a Bilstein/H&R race suspension, adjustible toe and camber setup. The Accord is just as able to go in turns as the 328I, and if getting a better gas millage while doing so gets it the label of an econobox, than good for it, bonus points over the 3 series. It's at least as luxurious and sporty while getting better gas millage.

Would you rather have me compare my engine with a '95 BMW motor? And no, the H22 itself is not modded inside, it's stock. IHE is all it took to get to 190lb/ft torque and 235hp at the crank.

FWD is not a deal breaker either unless you are in a drift competition. It has it's drawbacks though limited traction but saves weight and driveline loss and makes it more composed near it's limit.

More to your point, it all depends on what you define as "unnecessary" weight. Some people strip car interiors and run on 1/4th gas tank to save weight. Unnecessary weight to me is: a sealed box, a sealed box sub when and IB sub weighs a fraction and can use your trunk as a box, mundane MDF boards when lightweight MDF is available, 2 processors when you can just use one, 4 batteries when you need an HO alternator. To top it off I think BMWs come with a lot of unecessary weight: computers that tell you what to do, black boxes, engine covers, traction controls, and airbags for your ankles. FWIW I have a removable IB baffle/ amp rack, 150lbs that can be removed for events. Unnecessary?
 
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