[Jumpngiggawattz]

Hey everyone to all that don't know I came back to Car Audio after 20 years away and have dove in hard. I have lurked and have been reading everything I can find for months and to be honest its a bit of information overload lol. That being said I have heard a proper Sq car and I want that for myself. In my journey to achieving this I have set up a 3 way front stage consisting of.


1. Head Unit, Kenwood Excelon304 single din deck for source.

2. Processor, Helix M4 Dsp amp combo

3.Amps, Audio Apex M4 for midbass drivers. Audio Apex Cab22 for Sub and Helix on Tweeters and mids.

4.Speakers,

.Sub, American Bass Xr 15 in ported enclosure

.Mids, SB acoustics mnrx12 4 inch

.Tweeters, Image Dynamics xs28

.Midbass, Image dynamics xs65 in doors and Jbl Fuse underseats


Now I have so far done a basic Auto Eq in the Helix using the Audiofrog guide method tuning to the Audiofrog curve and the results are pretty good but I know that it can be much better so I started over clean and just ran all the speakers responses in REW with no X overs and no T/A just to see where everything stands in my car so I can start with selecting x over points and go from there. Here are my responses.

The last pic is my average of front stage without sub. I guess my Question is, where to go from here? I realize everyone does steps differently but so pro tips would be much appreciated lol.

 

[bnae38]

Midbass response cant be of Left and Right midbass, looks like two shots of one or the other. ?

I would guess the right midbass.

 

[Stycker]

No pro here but that looks great. You won't have many issues to sort out. At this point you should select crossovers. Start with 80,300,3500 LR24. Then run another sweep. Make sure frequencies sum at the crossover point. If they do then set TA and run another sweep to confirm crossover points still sum. You should get +6db between Midbass and midrange. +3-6 between midrange and tweeter. Now EQ each speaker individually to a house curve. Run another sweep then level match each side seperately to a house curve. Run another sweep of left side Vs. Right side. If both sides are identical you can put the Mic away. Tune and level match by ears. Audiofrog guide is great to follow. As you get better you'll find that guide has some flaws. Not for me to point out though, remember I'm not a pro. Just a hobbiest here.

 

[Jumpngiggawattz]

Midbass response cant be of Left and Right midbass, looks like two shots of one or the other. ?

I would guess the right midbass.

You know I was thinking that too cause there is no way they are that perfect lol. I'm gonna have to go back and fix that

 

[Stycker]

Your right about the Midbass. Looks too good to be true.

 

[Pb82 Ronin]

Where were you measuring from? I can see right away the gains left to right (tweets/midranges) are off. Mid-bass driver gains look decent. Need to know more about your setup and adjustment capabilities before further advise can be given...

 

[Jumpngiggawattz]

Measurements taken with me in the drivers seat with Umm 6 moving from side to side Ala Kyle Ragsdale. As far as gains I have my midbass amps gains dialed completely down my dsp gain is at 0db in the output routing and every speaker is at -5db. I haven't done any level matching.

 

[Stycker]

Measurements taken with me in the drivers seat with Umm 6 moving from side to side Ala Kyle Ragsdale. As far as gains I have my midbass amps gains dialed completely down my dsp gain is at 0db in the output routing and every speaker is at -5db. I haven't done any level matching.

No need to level match yet. Set some crossovers only then let us see what you got. One step at a time.

 

[Pb82 Ronin]

No need to level match yet. Set some crossovers only then let us see what you got. One step at a time.

Agree with this. Also, I get why folks move the mic back and forth, but I would advise against doing that. very hard to be consistent with your movements and there's no sense in "averaging" unless the software you're using can accommodate for that.

 

[Jumpngiggawattz]

So I just went in to get responses with the x overs set and got to my midbasses and was muting and realized even if I muted one both sides still played.I tried switching rcas and playing with balance but no matter what The midbass was playing through both sides the only thing that changed was if I went from one channel e to f in this case. No matter what I have muted it plays both midbass grghh!

 

[Pb82 Ronin]

Definitely have something wired incorrectly with the mids.

 

[Jumpngiggawattz]

Definitely have something wired incorrectly with the mids.

The only thing I did was put the jbls onto the same channels as my ID xs57's. They have been upto now playing fine. I will have to dig when I get home. Luckily I have my old Kicker on the midbasses now if there is a problem with the amp. My Cab4 just came in mail today so I will double check everything when I get home. But these were playing fine until now. There is no way the wiring can be confused because I just ran it and all left is on left of car and all right is on right so this makes 0 sense

 

[Uberverbosity]

So I just went in to get responses with the x overs set and got to my midbasses and was muting and realized even if I muted one both sides still played.I tried switching rcas and playing with balance but no matter what The midbass was playing through both sides the only thing that changed was if I went from one channel e to f in this case. No matter what I have muted it plays both midbass grghh!

Check your Helix I/O config

 

[Jumpngiggawattz]

Check your Helix I/O

Check your Helix I/O config

Actually that was first place I looked. I might just go do a reset on the Helix because something isn't right but all looks well. I figure it has to be either the Helix or the amp doing it.

 

[Jumpngiggawattz]

So I did some troubleshooting and bypassed the dsp. Turns out the problem is the midbass amp smh. I guess my sixth sense is what told me to by a new amp for my midbasses lol. So either way tomorrow I will have new amp on my midbasses and post my responses with x overs set. It's always something slowing me down it seems. I'm determined to have a setup that I can be happy with and even possibly go to a competion here and there as I learn more. Will report tomorrow after getting Cab M4 in. Thanks everyone thus far for you help🙂

 

[Jumpngiggawattz]

So turns out the amp was the problem. I guess something must have been screwed up with the inputs. I forget my laptop when I came to work so measurements will be coming later today or tomorrow when I get home.

 

[Jumpngiggawattz]

I got my new amp wired in on both sets of midbass. I currently have gains completely down on the CAB m4 running them. the Cab excepts 6v at the inputs so I figured I probably could do all my gains in the dsp without touching amp gains. Although The midbass does seem a little low but I was able to get some RTA responses after setting Xovers. I have the Underseat midbass 60 to 249hz, the door midbass 80 to 249hz, mids 249 to 3511hz and the tweeters highpassed at 3511hz all LR4 24db slopes. Here is my measurements

So I can definitely see the null in the left doors midbass, but it seems this is common. I would like to hear everyone elses thoughts in what they are seeing and were I should go from here.

 

[bnae38]

What about subwoofer?

Not sure I would run under seat midbass and door midbass, what is your reasoning for that?

 

[Jumpngiggawattz]

My sub is out right now I'm in the process of building a new enclosure I got everything cut just haven't made the time to finish it. I do alot of my stuff while at work but I can't do my box there and when at home with 4 kids it's tough to make time lol. I know some people have had great success with multiple midbass speakers such as Patrick Bateman who always advocated multiple midbass speakers. I am not dead set on running 2 sets but I would like to try to make it work. I immediately liked what the underseat midbasses added to the doors when I put them in though.

 

[bnae38]

Gotcha, could work. Would be a narrow band on under seat midbass, but once you get them tuned matched and flattened.. and get them in phase with the door mids, I guess it could work.

Soo before going to level matching and setting xo, why do you think the right door midbass is so low? Are the gains matched?

Seems unusually low, though it's typically lower than the left anyway.

Edit.. I see it's the left door midbass that's low.