[pdiddy403]

Hello all...
I am currently using a Pioneer P99RS with a set of Focal Utopia No.7 "active" and would like to get some advise on high pass/low pass crossover settings, slope and phase adjustements to help me start things off.
Mid/tweet are high in the "A" pillar (Using Focal's "Mid Box") and bass drivers are high in the doors.
Thank you in advance for everyons' help!

 

[Mitsu1grn]

Greetings!

Here is a good starting line-up for you. Tweeter high pass frequency would be 4k at -12 db reverse phase. Band pass on the mid would be 3.2k at -12 db to 400 hz at -12 db. Low pass for the 6.5 would be 350 hz at -12 db reverse phase. Should sound pretty decent from that point.

Nick Wingate Jr.
National Training Coordinator
Focal/Mosconi/Illusion Audio

 

[FinnMarcus]

Greetings!

Here is a good starting line-up for you. Tweeter high pass frequency would be 4k at -12 db reverse phase. Band pass on the mid would be 3.2k at -12 db to 400 hz at -12 db. Low pass for the 6.5 would be 350 hz at -12 db reverse phase. Should sound pretty decent from that point.

Nick Wingate Jr.
National Training Coordinator
Focal/Mosconi/Illusion Audio

have to be honest, those settings made my setup sound absurd, why should i do reverse phase on some components, and not be in the frequency range of what focal is recommending?

I'm new to the Active crossover settings area, and struggling to get my utopia no7 to sound what i want it to sound.

Do someone have any suggestions in what direction i can go at to get my no7 on the right track?


Thanks...

 

[subwoofery]

have to be honest, those settings made my setup sound absurd, why should i do reverse phase on some components, and not be in the frequency range of what focal is recommending?

I'm new to the Active crossover settings area, and struggling to get my utopia no7 to sound what i want it to sound.

Do someone have any suggestions in what direction i can go at to get my no7 on the right track?


Thanks...

Did you know that Nick is Focal's official wholesaler in the US? He knows a thing or 2 about the Utopia Be line too.
If you don't like his recommendation, at least show him some respect, express what you don't like so that he can make another suggestion...

Since you're new to active setups, don't discard suggestions like that (if you did try them, good for you). Sometimes things that sound absurd "can" work in car audio.
Won't get much attention acting like that.

Kelvin

 

[FinnMarcus]

Did you know that Nick is Focal's official wholesaler in the US? He knows a thing or 2 about the Utopia Be line too.
If you don't like his recommendation, at least show him some respect, express what you don't like so that he can make another suggestion...

Since you're new to active setups, don't discard suggestions like that (if you did try them, good for you). Sometimes things that sound absurd "can" work in car audio.
Won't get much attention acting like that.

Kelvin

Hello, i'm sorry if i sent a wrong message, my english is not so good and i should reformulate what i said.

I did not want to disrespect anyone.

i tried the recommendation in my Opel Corsa C 2001mod. And got a odd result. My setup is the same as the thread starter, but my bass drivers is on the bottom of the doors, So thought that Mitsu1grn recommendations was usable in my car.

So again, sorry for being rude, it was not tended.

I would love to hear some more suggestions from Mitsu1grn.

Yours FinnW..

 

[subwoofery]

Hello, i'm sorry if i sent a wrong message, my english is not so good and i should reformulate what i said.

I did not want to disrespect anyone.

i tried the recommendation in my Opel Corsa C 2001mod. And got a odd result. My setup is the same as the thread starter, but my bass drivers is on the bottom of the doors, So thought that Mitsu1grn recommendations was usable in my car.

So again, sorry for being rude, it was not tended.

I would love to hear some more suggestions from Mitsu1grn.

Yours FinnW..

Don't worry, I was not trying to be all that bad either. I know internet can be deceiving sometimes.

It's all cool

Kelvin

 

[Mitsu1grn]

Greetings!

To the gentleman who has the Opel....if you would give me some idea as to what your system sounds like now and what you are trying to achieve, We on this forum might be able to talk to you and get you there. There are a number of people who preside in this forum who have years of experience tuning systems actively. I am confident that with time and patience you can achieve what you are listening for in your vehicle.

As to why I recommend certain crossover frequencies, it comes down to experience and actual measurements of the drives you are using.

Nick

 

[nigeDLS]

I believe the reason for phase swapping would be due to the 12dB slopes that were suggested.

I don't see why those settings wouldn't sound ok, of course it could be better but as a starting point they don't seem wrong at all.

 

[FinnMarcus]

Don't worry, I was not trying to be all that bad either. I know internet can be deceiving sometimes.

It's all cool

Kelvin

Greetings!

To the gentleman who has the Opel....if you would give me some idea as to what your system sounds like now and what you are trying to achieve, We on this forum might be able to talk to you and get you there. There are a number of people who preside in this forum who have years of experience tuning systems actively. I am confident that with time and patience you can achieve what you are listening for in your vehicle.

As to why I recommend certain crossover frequencies, it comes down to experience and actual measurements of the drives you are using.

Nick

Hi, and thanks for reply, i was reading more carefully threw the P99RS manual, and figured out that i was thinking wrongly about the reverse phase.

I went directly in the phase selector and turned it to reverse on the components you where telling about.

As shown in the manual, it tells me that i was thinking wrong.

I did a retry whit the instructions you wrote in this thread, and got great results. It even sounded better than the auto eq and speaker distance setup whit the mic. I did a manual length distance messuring and tweaked it a bit further, and the sound got dead center with a great sound stage. I'm looking forwards to tweak it more to get better result.

I also have a Utopia 33WX in a 45 liter ported enclosure. At the moment, i have the crossover slope at -12 and lowpass at 63 hz, what do you recommend here? and also, where should the highpass on the 6.5 bass be? 63hz and slope at -12 ? i can see that in the manual, it is recommended at 60Hz highpass.

Thanks again

I believe the reason for phase swapping would be due to the 12dB slopes that were suggested.

I don't see why those settings wouldn't sound ok, of course it could be better but as a starting point they don't seem wrong at all.

Hehe, yepp, as i wrote above, it was a great idea..


PS. I hope its ok to continue questioning on this thread pdiddy403

 

[FinnMarcus]

Bump? oke:

 

[Mitsu1grn]

Greetings!

Depending on how well your doors are damped, your high pass on the 6W3 Be could be from 80 hz to 50 hz. That is something that your ears will tell you. There really isn't a set value for any bass driver in a door or any enclosure to tell you the truth. My tuning experience has taught me that by listening to the bass driver and determining at what frequency distortion is diminished is a great place to cross the Bass driver at!

For instance, some doors that are not damped very well will resonate at a relatively high frequency, say 100 hz or so. That usually means that a steep crossover filter should be used,( -24db), to minimize the resonance problems and the resulting phase shift.

In a well damped door or enclosure the resonance is minimized and the crossover frequency will be lower and the Bass driver COULD be allowed to roll off naturally at a shallow slope and have no high pass used at all.

In your case I wish I could say that this frequency, ( xx hz), is the magic one and go from there. I can't without listening to your system. My recommendation would be to listen to your system with your subs off and just let the 6W3BE's play full range and see how they handle lower bass notes. You will know when they sound good and when the sound bad. Since you have the No.7 kit I would assume you have the Focal Test CD that came with them. Use those frequency sweeps in the lower frequencies and determine just where the resonance is the least and that would be where I would start.

Since we have started using the -12db slopes on the mid to bass filters I would suggest you stay with that -12db slope or go to a -24 db slope if the resonance is severe. Be sure to remember that when you do this that the low pass filter on the subs should correspond and invert phasing on the subs and this system should sound pretty good.

Later on if you would like to try aligning the phase of the system to the subs with signal delay please let me know and Ill try and give you an idea of how to do it. The auto alignment in the Pioneer is not very good in my opinion and your ears are way better test microphones anyway!

Nick Wingate
National Training Coordinator
Focal/Mosconi/Illusion Audio America

 

[Juls1]

I'm probably a bit late, but I found this thread Trawling google thought i would post for others benefit,

I've run the no7 active for about 3 years now,

I'm running my set with 33WX2 in a sealed box, in a ute, (small truck for US pplz speak) Running off 2 x soundstream van gogh 500.4 through a Alpine PXA-H701.

It is worth noting that my mid and tweet are nearly on axis, that is, that the opposite driver is entirely on axis with that side ear, and the other is pointing in the same direction at the other seat, making that side off axis about 30 deg.

After breakin, which is a good 100+ hours,
The settings I use most are.

TBE/3W2 2.2-2.5khz 24/db
3W2/6W3 280hz-315hz 24/db
6W3/33WX2 71,80,90 24/db

Observations in my setup,

when on axis, the 3W2 is a little harsh through the 2-5khz range, this can be mistaken for tweeter issues if your not aware of it, run off axis I believe this wouldn't be noticed, This is why I run a low tweeter cutoff, in my setup the tweeter works flawlessly at these crossover points. It's worth noting, that TBE's with less than 50 hours on them, may not respond to cutoffs under 4-5k as well as they do after 50-100 hours.

In my setup where the subwoofer is basically about 1 metre from my ear, and there is no obstruction, the 33WX2 is far more capable in the 60-100hz range than the 6W3, in my specific setup the 6W3 sounds thick and boomy below 80hz, the 33WX is far more capable in this region, is clean, fast, tight and neutral with no distortion at all. For this reason I mainly run 90hz crossover with my 6W3, I don't suffer any subwoofer dragback, but this is part of getting everything else right, the x/over point isn't too much to do with that.

in the upper of the 6W3, depending on your setup, and depending on the enclosure you used on your 3W2, I found the 3W2 to get thin under about 250hz, and couldn't keep up with the level i wanted to run the 6W3, however any crossover over the 315hz mark the 6W3 starts to cloud the midrange, so the sweet spot in my setup sways from 280hz-315hz.

Forget your preconceptions and ideas of what should/shouldn't work based on data, try things outside that square and you will have a better understanding what works within your setup.

Every car, every piece of equiptment, and every install will change the outcome of what actual x/over points work for your system.

A few things, Don't mix x/over slopes, they all stuff with the phase, active is not immune to this. This set has good enough response to use 24db across the board, i suggest you stick to that.

Hope this helps.
Julian.

 

[michael33]

HELLO,

I've got a Utopia N7 3 ways active set recently. After setting up with Audison Bit One HD, I discovered that the sounds are too thin. Any idea of solving this problem?

thx

 

[oabeieo]

HELLO,

I've got a Utopia N7 3 ways active set recently. After setting up with Audison Bit One HD, I discovered that the sounds are too thin. Any idea of solving this problem?

thx

It's either install related or tuning or both.
The no7 set is definitely not the problem.

Can you post pics of install and eq and frequency response
And maybe some can help.

Old post new help

 

[GEM592]

Hello all...
I am currently using a Pioneer P99RS with a set of Focal Utopia No.7 "active" and would like to get some advise on high pass/low pass crossover settings, slope and phase adjustements to help me start things off.
Mid/tweet are high in the "A" pillar (Using Focal's "Mid Box") and bass drivers are high in the doors.
Thank you in advance for everyons' help!

I would let the woofers play up to around 1K, mids 1K to 4K, tweets 4K up, slopes -12 to start.

The phase reversal was suggested to correct the phase shift with -12 slopes, it often makes it sound better.

I don't generally have good results trying to cross mids in the 300-800 Hz range, but your results may vary.

 

[Elektra]

I would let the woofers play up to around 1K, mids 1K to 4K, tweets 4K up, slopes -12 to start.



The phase reversal was suggested to correct the phase shift with -12 slopes, it often makes it sound better.



I don't generally have good results trying to cross mids in the 300-800 Hz range, but your results may vary.

Ok. The mid and twt should NOT be on axis to you. Driver side and passenger side should be 15-30 degrees off axis to you respectfully.

Crossover high pass on twt 4k @-12 db Linkwitz Reilly

Midrange band pass. Low pass 3.2 k @-12 db Bessel

High pass -12 db Bessel at 500 hz

Bass driver. Band pass. Low pass 1000 hz. @-12 db Butterworth
Highpass 65 hz &-12 db Butterworth

Invert phase tweeters and bass driver.

Let me know how this sounds!

Nick

This was the recommendations of the Focal USA guy

Using a P99 you may struggle with the different types of slopes as the P99 doesn't have more than one choice

What's most important is the reverse Phasing especially on the tweeters...



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[michael33]

Your suggestion is like that:
tweeter : 4k -12db, Linkwitz
Mid : high pass 500 , low pass 3.2k, -12 Bessel
Bass: high pass 65, low pass 1k , -12 Butterworth
Invert phase to Treble and Bass.


I am just a beginner of this and I want to learn more about dsp settings. In this setting, the frequency of 3.2k to 4k is omitted. Does it matter? Also, there is an overlap frequency of 500 to 1k in the Mid and Bass. Does it matter?

So why sometimes the frequency can be omitted(tweeter and Mid) and sometimes they can be overlap( Mid and Bass)? Is there any rules of setting this?

What is the function of inverting phase of Treble and Bass driver? I noticed that the frequency dropped between the crossover point of Tweeter and Mid after set inverted phase.

Thx a lot!!!

Ok. The mid and twt should NOT be on axis to you. Driver side and passenger side should be 15-30 degrees off axis to you respectfully.

Crossover high pass on twt 4k @-12 db Linkwitz Reilly

Midrange band pass. Low pass 3.2 k @-12 db Bessel

High pass -12 db Bessel at 500 hz

Bass driver. Band pass. Low pass 1000 hz. @-12 db Butterworth
Highpass 65 hz &-12 db Butterworth

Invert phase tweeters and bass driver.

Let me know how this sounds!

Nick

This was the recommendations of the Focal USA guy

Using a P99 you may struggle with the different types of slopes as the P99 doesn't have more than one choice

What's most important is the reverse Phasing especially on the tweeters...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Elektra]

Your suggestion is like that:

tweeter : 4k -12db, Linkwitz

Mid : high pass 500 , low pass 3.2k, -12 Bessel

Bass: high pass 65, low pass 1k , -12 Butterworth



I am just a beginner of this and I want to learn more about dsp settings. In this setting, the frequency of 3.2k to 4k is omitted. Does it matter? Also, there is an overlap frequency of 500 to 1k in the Mid and Bass. Does it matter?



So why sometimes the frequency can be omitted(tweeter and Mid) and sometimes they can be overlap( Mid and Bass)?



Is there any rules of setting this?



Thx a lot!!!

To be honest it's just a guide you try the overlap or you can try it with no overlap see how it sounds


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[LBaudio]

For starters I would go with
Bass 60 Hz hipass @ 24 do/oct and up to 200-315Hz lowpass @ 12 db/oct
MID 400 @12 db/oct to 4kHz @12 db/oct
Tweet 5K or even higher @ 12 db/oct.
If using 12db/oct slopes you can have up to one octave spacing between xo points, but you have to experiment, the same goes to slopes. Shalower slopes have better transient response compared to steeper slopes....I prefer shalower slopes on top end and steeper on bass region. Try to have the same slopes between bass/mis and between mid and TW.
X-over points and slopes are one part of the story, the secind part are levels between drivers and of course phasing between drivers. If you end up with thin sound try to elevate level on pair of bass drivers or lower mid and tweets to get normal tone balance.
other reason for thin sound can be also install, especially install of bass drivers - they should be solid mounted on MDF/metal rings attached to the door frame, all holes in inner metal closed with damping mats or fiberglass, adequate damping of door metal and door-card.

Focal bass drivers are known for good/strong/potent midbass, so drivers by itself are not a problem.

 

[Elektra]

For starters I would go with

Bass 60 Hz hipass @ 24 do/oct and up to 200-315Hz lowpass @ 12 db/oct

MID 400 @12 db/oct to 4kHz @12 db/oct

Tweet 5K or even higher @ 12 db/oct.

If using 12db/oct slopes you can have up to one octave spacing between xo points, but you have to experiment, the same goes to slopes. Shalower slopes have better transient response compared to steeper slopes....I prefer shalower slopes on top end and steeper on bass region. Try to have the same slopes between bass/mis and between mid and TW.

X-over points and slopes are one part of the story, the secind part are levels between drivers and of course phasing between drivers. If you end up with thin sound try to elevate level on pair of bass drivers or lower mid and tweets to get normal tone balance.

other reason for thin sound can be also install, especially install of bass drivers - they should be solid mounted on MDF/metal rings attached to the door frame, all holes in inner metal closed with damping mats or fiberglass, adequate damping of door metal and door-card.



Focal bass drivers are known for good/strong/potent midbass, so drivers by itself are not a problem.

Yeah I had something like that except I used 18db on the midbass...

Also google what the crossblock frequency positions are and mimic those as Focal spent a lot of time developing that crossblock so I think they know best as to what crossover points suit there speakers

But I would just keep 2.5 octaves above FS on the mid and tweeters and watch out for beaming points on the mid and you should be sorted for a baseline system...


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