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Discussion Starter #1
Hello there,
I'm search a lot on internet, now just I want to consultation.
First I want to 12" SQ subwoofer for my hatchback cars on the rear deck (car is:
)
(Just on rear deck cause I push toolbox in my small trunk)
Now after much research I got that subwoofer to be installed for free-are setup need to low FS and high QTS. And the high Xmax is better.

However, I can access this free-air subwoofer in my country (Iran):
1. DLS Performance OA12D :
Performance OA12D - 12 inch open air subwoofer
http://dls.se/files/179/2/Man_Performance_subs_eng_07.pdf

2. Ground Zero GZIW 300x
Iridium GZIW 300X
http://www.ground-zero-audio.com/components/com_jshopping/files/demo_products/GZIW_300X.pdf

3. Gladen RS 12 FA
GLADEN GERMAN TECHNOLOGY Subwoofer
http://www.gladen.com/GladenWooferPDFs/RS12FA.pdf

4. Pioneer TS-W309
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/archive/TS-W309/page.html

5. And other F series of pioneer company.
But I think choice between DLS and Ground Zero.
And I sad looking for sound quality, not SPL.
Other people say the DLS subwoofer has good quality.
Its 210W rms on 4 Ohm.
And the Ground Zero subwoofer is 350W rms.

On a paper the Ground Zero T/S parameters is more near to a free-air subwoofer than the DLS. Like this:
GZIW 300x:
Fs : 34.9Hz
QTS : 0.69
Xmax : 14mm / 0.55"
DLS OA12D :
FS : 37.8Hz
QTS : 0.49
Xmax : 9mm / 0.35"

And Ground Zero cheaper than DLS, but when I listen and testing on YouTube, I think the DLS has Low, soft and quality sound, Ground Zero has a falsetto sound, its seems like yowl, I don’t know maybe GZIW has power sound and mobile camera cant record the sound and sound in YouTube is like to yowl or what.
I don’t Know attention to T/S parameters on the paper or testing sound on YouTube.
YouTube listening ride me to select DLS, but parameters goes me to select Ground Zero.
What is your suggestion.
I know IDQ is very well but is expensive and I don’t have enough money.
Sorry for bad English.

Ground zero gziw 300x video :

DLS OA12D video : (im search on youtube and just find 10" subwoofer :

just this 12" :
 

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Is your hatch isolated, or is it open behind the back seats? Most hatchbacks are not good for IB since the only way they work properly is by separating the front and back waves. You mention a rear deck, so I'm having difficulty seeing what you have to work with. What car is that?
 

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I assume more people are installing the Ground Zero subs in enclosures more tuned for SPL than the DLS, which might explain the difference on youtube.

A higher QTS generally results in a boost around FS when used in an infinite baffle application. The frequency response of a lower QTS speaker will generally slope downward as you get lower in frequency, although it will be very gradual. The goal is to match the speaker and enclosure with the natural cabin gain in the car to produce the frequency response you want. I don't think you'll have any trouble getting the output you need with either speaker, but you might benefit from some ability to EQ the response to get rid of spikes in the response that will probably be more a function of the car than the subwoofer.

Go with whichever one you like. If it were me simply based on the specs I would go with the Ground Zero, but only because of the increased xmax - the QTS and FS figures between the two are close enough to call it a draw.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Ground Zero makes a free air sub called Titainium i have 2they are fantastic they are good for 500wrms each
yes you right, that model with 500wrms is 15" and i look for 12", which 12" model is GZTW 30TX. thanks, if founded other model like GZUW 12SQ when im search TITANIUM on ground zero website.

Is your hatch isolated, or is it open behind the back seats? Most hatchbacks are not good for IB since the only way they work properly is by separating the front and back waves. You mention a rear deck, so I'm having difficulty seeing what you have to work with. What car is that?
yes its isolated and back seats are not open, you can see inner of trunk :




i think the hatch is good for ib because its small than other trunk and near to the box.

I assume more people are installing the Ground Zero subs in enclosures more tuned for SPL than the DLS, which might explain the difference on youtube.

A higher QTS generally results in a boost around FS when used in an infinite baffle application. The frequency response of a lower QTS speaker will generally slope downward as you get lower in frequency, although it will be very gradual. The goal is to match the speaker and enclosure with the natural cabin gain in the car to produce the frequency response you want. I don't think you'll have any trouble getting the output you need with either speaker, but you might benefit from some ability to EQ the response to get rid of spikes in the response that will probably be more a function of the car than the subwoofer.

Go with whichever one you like. If it were me simply based on the specs I would go with the Ground Zero, but only because of the increased xmax - the QTS and FS figures between the two are close enough to call it a draw.
thanks, but my goal is SQ and im sensitive on this, i want best choice
 

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I should have pointed out all sizes of the titainium line are able to be used free air also seems only 1other line is free air the gziw300x line but all the free air subs are not that high of SQ
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I should have pointed out all sizes of the titainium line are able to be used free air also seems only 1other line is free air the gziw300x line but all the free air subs are not that high of SQ
that's it, my subject is searching for SQ subwoofer in IB application, whats your suggestion ?

also im saw in ground zereo website GZUW 12SQ is a free air subwoofer and GZUW 12SQX isnt, what different between?

what about the Infinity - Kappa 120.9w

important is SQ, not SPL,

GZIW 300x is Cheaper than all of other, if you think SQ of this subwwofer is good, im buy it, if not what is your suggestion cheap SQ subwoofer?
 

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Where exactly are you planning on installing the sub? Surely not on the folding rack behind the rear seat?
 

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Toolbox is quite small? It's going to be bit of hassle with speaker(s) on the shelf
You need to build good metal supports for the thick nonflexing baffle aswell, I guess you are prepared to do so? You can not leave it unsecured so you can lift it when putting things in there.

For usability sake there is one more option to put the sub venting through a hole on the trunk floor to outside the car with some piece of foam to protect from water.
 

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You can save yourself a ton of work involved in mounting the sub on the shelf, by using a large sealed box instead. A 2-2.5 cuft box or bigger will be IB for both your subs. The other thought that comes to mind is, that since you are going IB maybe you can look at subs with an Fs closer to 30 instead of 40. Youtube videos are a horrible reference for judging how the sub sounds :).
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Where exactly are you planning on installing the sub? Surely not on the folding rack behind the rear seat?
on the back shelf, here:


Toolbox is quite small? It's going to be bit of hassle with speaker(s) on the shelf
You need to build good metal supports for the thick nonflexing baffle aswell, I guess you are prepared to do so? You can not leave it unsecured so you can lift it when putting things in there.

For usability sake there is one more option to put the sub venting through a hole on the trunk floor to outside the car with some piece of foam to protect from water.
i need my trunk space so, OK my deck in MDF wood, and if need i can building Firmer.

You can save yourself a ton of work involved in mounting the sub on the shelf, by using a large sealed box instead. A 2-2.5 cuft box or bigger will be IB for both your subs. The other thought that comes to mind is, that since you are going IB maybe you can look at subs with an Fs closer to 30 instead of 40. Youtube videos are a horrible reference for judging how the sub sounds :).
OK, im find sub with FS closer to 20, but i thought should erasure "free-air" title on company commodity, and maybe your right, Youtube videos are not reference, thanks
 

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on the back shelf, here:




i need my trunk space so, OK my deck in MDF wood, and if need i can building Firmer.



OK, im find sub with FS closer to 20, but i thought should erasure "free-air" title on company commodity, and maybe your right, Youtube videos are not reference, thanks
Well, you can go the shelf route, but for sure you will need to rebuild the shelf in at least 3/4-1" MDF, maybe brace it, and for sure you will need to secure it in place so that it doesn't rattle and lastly you will need to seal around the edges so that the boot is isolated from the cabin. Trust me it is a lot of work. If you want the cool look of the sub on the shelf, there will be a fair bit of work involved :). Nice carpet btw.

I should mention that the above exercise is based on getting a true IB and something that sounds really good. But even if you're just looking for some bass and a visible sub, I would still recommend at least making the shelf in MDF, and then bolting it down permanently.

I'm not sure you'll find a 12" with an Fs around 20 hz. Look for something in the 28-32hz kind of ball park. It's a sub and it's only going to play 2 octaves ~20-80 hz, you don't need to spend a whole lot.
 

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thats what im saying just buy a free air sub from gz that he has available to him,it worrks great and sounds good and is made for what he wants and the price isnt that much at least not here
 

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this will work fine, there will be associated loss because of the air leaks at the folding seats and around baffle, and you'll want to have as much cone area as you can fit without compromising the strength of the baffle,I built a vw sirocco for a client many years ago using two of the pioneer free-air 12" on modest power, he went to daytona spring break that year as a joke just to see what the judges thought, apparently the judges liked it, he recieved a second place trophy in SQ in his class. It'll work fine, make sure the baffle is as rigid as possible, and when you close hatch make sure the baffle cannot move or even vibrate at all, if there is movement there will be loss of output.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
What is your current sub there now? You could always try that before getting new one.
i haven't experience with any sub, that's is my first car.

Well, you can go the shelf route, but for sure you will need to rebuild the shelf in at least 3/4-1" MDF, maybe brace it, and for sure you will need to secure it in place so that it doesn't rattle and lastly you will need to seal around the edges so that the boot is isolated from the cabin. Trust me it is a lot of work. If you want the cool look of the sub on the shelf, there will be a fair bit of work involved :). Nice carpet btw.

I should mention that the above exercise is based on getting a true IB and something that sounds really good. But even if you're just looking for some bass and a visible sub, I would still recommend at least making the shelf in MDF, and then bolting it down permanently.

I'm not sure you'll find a 12" with an Fs around 20 hz. Look for something in the 28-32hz kind of ball park. It's a sub and it's only going to play 2 octaves ~20-80 hz, you don't need to spend a whole lot.
OK, if necessary i can add a layer of MDF to tighter.
and i find 12" sub with FS 22.19 and QTS 0.7 but is no longer available. in here : Infinity Kappa Perfect12 VQ 12" Component Subwoofer with Variable Q at Crutchfield.com
and other like that.

this will work fine, there will be associated loss because of the air leaks at the folding seats and around baffle, and you'll want to have as much cone area as you can fit without compromising the strength of the baffle,I built a vw sirocco for a client many years ago using two of the pioneer free-air 12" on modest power, he went to daytona spring break that year as a joke just to see what the judges thought, apparently the judges liked it, he recieved a second place trophy in SQ in his class. It'll work fine, make sure the baffle is as rigid as possible, and when you close hatch make sure the baffle cannot move or even vibrate at all, if there is movement there will be loss of output.
thanks everybody, i try to isolate MDF shelf and OK,
but now i`m looking for select the best Quality sub in IB setup, i think low FS with high QTS and high Xmax and a little high rms.
and again thanks.
 
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