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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What do you think? Is there some specific reason not to use co-axial component speakers for a front stage? Can coax even really produce SQ on par with components?

I have been into autosound for a long time now, and I cannot say definitively that the sound of coax speakers is inherently inferior to separates. As a matter of fact, it has always seemed to me that if nothing else, coax at least offer equal path lengths, which is one of the primary hurdles to developing a decent soundstage.

Of course, satellites are more versatile, and properly aiming tweeters in particular can have a significant impact on imaging, so there is that to consider.

I have used separates for years now, but I think it is as much about force of habit as anything. I'm just wondering if anybody here has ever attempted to develop a decent front stage using coax speakers, and what kind of results did it yeild?
Obviously, I'm not talking about competition level quality here, but I do wonder if there are any other reasons in particular why we don't see more people using coax in the mobile realm for a moderately powered (100x2 watt front stage) daily driver.

Hypothetically, if one were to spend say, $300 on a front stage - would you say it be wiser to spend $150 on dampening & $150 on a nice pair of coax, or would it be better to buy a $300 component set and just let psycho-acoustics or some such nonsense convince you that it sounds "better" because you are using more expensive speakers?

Opinions?
 

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There is no inherent reason a coax can't sound great, problem is when most people think of coax's they think of the cheap sony 3 or 4 ways you see in walmart. If you get one of the "convertibles" that are really a separate mid and tweeter that have special hardware to mount them coaxially then you're fine. They can still be ran actively or at least they have a good passive and the only real difference is how they're mounted, which in this case is a good thing due to the point source. The best coax's I've heard are the older KEF UNIQ's that actually had the tweeter completely embedded in the center of the cone where the dustcap is.
 

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^^^ +100...

A proper coax is also called a "point source" driver and is really the ideal way... the further the tweeter gets from the mid, the more funny phase shift things happen... lol...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
^ Yeah, that's basically what I was thinking.

I've never heard the KEF, but that design is certainly interesting.
 

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Those Kef's were really great! I know morel makes some "point source" coaxials that are also great...My problem is aside from the component sets you can mount as coaxials (somewhat limited in choices, although there are some very good ones) is that in "most" or "a lot" of circumstances you are probably not going to get the best quality drivers used to make that coaxial. I assume its because of demand and $ vs what will work best. I just dont see people spending $600 on top quality coaxials even though installation would be a million times easier (still needs to be proper I know) and in a good amount of circumstances subtract a lot of tuning issues people have with components the minute they install them. In the end that $600 (I know thats kinda steep, but for the sake of argument lets just use it) might be a good deal because maybe they can drop there $$$ processors (assuming there head unit has some play just in case) and save on $$$ and time consuming mods. I definately think there are plenty of positives to this and think it would be quite easy to build a very very high quality sounding vehicle with this method. On another note.....the old JBL GTI (I think they were GTI back then) coaxials especially the 6x9s were probably the best I have heard. But again this is all my humble opinion/experience! great thread topic by the way!!
 

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It's more of a point source but the Audiophile 3" driver is the best sounding midrange I've ever used. It will play from around 300hz up to 20khz. It's the only speaker I've ever had to turn down 20khz on my eq. That speaker is amazing.


I also have some old school MB Quart coaxials that sound amazing. They are from the mid 90's. they are great. You have to tune the tweeter some, but past that--they are the great.

Memphis---then called Fultron--made a line called Aria's back in the 90's and it was a point source driver. It also sounded flat out amazing. I wish Memphis would bring it back just as it was. No changes at all to it.

In theory a coaxial--and more so a point source---would be the best choice. It lowers the number of sources of information to one point---which would mean less time delay to achieve that result--which generally means a more natural system. The problem is not a lot of companies (right now only Peter at the audiophile) will spend the money to build a coaxial that is of high quality.
 

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I could never get proper midbass response from coaxles.

I always thought it was because of the "tweeter pole"(?) going through the middle of the woofer cone.

Anyways, that's why I gave up on em.

They might be good in a front stage with a dedicated midbass though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
So if a decent quality "point source" coax was available, would anybody here give it a try?

I'm going to do some browsing and see what I can find that looks promising. For some reason this is becoming a pet project of mine - partially because I just want to try something different, and partially because I want to test the KISS principle out of curiosity to hear what it sounds like.

It's been so long since I had coax speakers anywhere, that I can't even recall how it sounds, or if the overall effect is noticeably different from components at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
IMHO, midbass is the most difficult range to realize regardless of the method. It's just like anything else I suppose - all in the tuning.
 

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If Peter at the audiophile came out with a 6 1/2" version of his 3" (and it was as good as the 3"), it would be in my car in a heartbeat as my entire front stage.
 

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What I would be really interested in try would be a GREAT 4" coax with a really kick a$$ tweeter and smooth mid. I can put that in my dash (stock location, dodge ram) and put a pair of great 6.5 or 8" midbass. I actually might try out the jbl p462 (doubt its great but I can get it dirt cheap) with a set of 8s in my doors. I could run a decent 3 way setup with minimal processing and use a good 4 channel amp. But for me a great 4" coaxial would be an instant purchase.
 

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The other reason co-ax's get a bad rep is that they usually get mounted in the factory locations. In most cars this is in the bottom front of the door firing sideways, which is so far off axis (esp. on driver's side) for tweeters that the treble gets murdered and the stage height is around your knees. Put a passenger in the car and the top end disappears entirely. With some properly aimed kicks or dash pods I think a quality co-ax would sound great. Tannoy has been using point-source drivers in their studio monitors for a long time, and they sound fantastic.
 

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my only complaint about coax. is that the midbass kind of works as an "active" horn messing with the tweeter response.

This is the Seas Dual Concentric used in a friend's car

 

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Just to add.....If I could build (custom work from a company) my own set of 4" coaxials it would be something along the lines of........boston acoustics z4 (spz60's) Morel elate 4" coaxials (really like the 23 tweet) image dynamics new component line in a 4" coax, polk sr, stuff like that would be awesome! But that is just my taste and what I think would work really really well in my truck.
 

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^the one I'v mentioned above from the autophile is a 3" but it is the exact same size as the Scan 4". Welcome to The Autophile! you can see it.

It works awesome in a dash.


I realize this is just an RTA graph and doesn't mean a whole lot, but it is kind of cool. This was in a small enclosure on axis in the middle of my garage (big garage--door open). Mic was 3 feet from speaker. Clarion DRX9255 HU, Memphis Crossover, Rockford Punch 60 amplifier. Crossover's mid would only go down to 400hz--that is why it rolls off there. 12db/slope on the crossover.

 

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Hmmmm very interesting.........and very impressive. Will definately do some reasearch and maybe some sampling. Thanks!
 

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Andy how much is that 3"?
 

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HOLYCRAP!!!!!!!!! there not exactly giving that set away huh!!! Not sure I am willing to change my whole system around for that. I am sure its awesome but I have already made all the $$$ mods for a traditional 3way. On another hand I have spent alot more on much less I am sure!
 

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I have a set of old school 5.25" MB Quart coaxes in my other car...and they sound great. Might use this in a 3way since the midbass is lacking...but midrange is very nice, the highs are abit hot but tuneable. I've also used some Morel Integra 6's before...very coherent sounding set...but also lacking in midbass. I have yet to hear a coax set that can produce midbass as good as component sets.
 
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