DiyMobileAudio.com Car Stereo Forum banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
This week we learned about entropy (S) ("randomness"), the basic principle being this -

Closed integral (loop?) dQ/T is less than or equal to zero
And that delta S is greater than or equal to zero

And how this is such a fundamental concept that nothing can ever violate this

That got me thinking about thermo and physics in general. How can we make any progress if anything we can fathom is chopped and constrained to these laws from the beginning? If you bring up perpetual motion to an engineer or physicist they will cut you off and say NO.

I'm not saying these laws are flawed but maybe we should reassess how much we allow these to limit our thinking. What we know as a whole changes year by year. There is much we don't understand and can't explain with conventional thinking, so why is this the only way we are taught?

Just my random (get it?) thoughs
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,731 Posts
Question everything, you don`t have to believe anything your professors telling you.
they should tell you how to obtain knowledge not what knowledge you have to learn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
237 Posts
Why do you type in English? Why not type in your own made up language, Like, dsuahsdkr adisomm aoduu mofaru llama. Don't listen to these people telling you how to communicate!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Because how else would I effectively communicate with you fine folk? I can't tell if you're trolling or not haha

I agree with that. I do also agree that the laws of thermodynamics have their place but I feel they are so limiting we don't bother to think outside the box anymore
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
554 Posts
"Nothing can violate this"... lol. Until someone does.:D
OK, OK, so maybe next nothing can but there will always be an ingenious way around it. Like Schroeder cat. One can't look inside but there are other ways to "work around it" while not violating it's core law. Like the event horizon "nothing can escape it once there".. until they found GASP they were wrong.
So soak up the knowledge, keep your mind OPEN and learn to adapt.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,394 Posts
I have a theory about developing theories and the age at which really ground-breaking concepts are assimilated or pushed into existence by the mind.

this seems to be a younger man's domain, where the rigid adherence to known guidelines, precepts, or maxims, is not so firmly set. And it's not so much a questioning thing, as it is an openness to interpretation.

maybe as a stepping off point, some of the logic that allows these universal "fundamentals" and natural laws is actually derived from faulty data, and the truth is...



lol....







out there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts
"The law that entropy always increases holds, I think, the supreme position among the laws of Nature. If someone points out to you that your pet theory of the universe is in disagreement with Maxwell's equations — then so much the worse for Maxwell's equations. If it is found to be contradicted by observation — well, these experimentalists do bungle things sometimes. But if your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics I can give you no hope; there is nothing for it but to collapse in deepest humiliation."
-Arthur Stanley Eddington
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,117 Posts
We can’t always start a new and thus why we share information known thus far. It is how we have gotten this far into technology, you go off of existing research and work and add to it.

You can also see it as a way of not losing a bunch of our time. If every generation ended up chasing perpetual motion before moving on to something concrete we would be wasting a ton of time. This is how we generally progress, learn from the past and concentrate on what is possible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,913 Posts
We can’t always start a new and thus why we share information known thus far. It is how we have gotten this far into technology, you go off of existing research and work and add to it.

You can also see it as a way of not losing a bunch of our time. If every generation ended up chasing perpetual motion before moving on to something concrete we would be wasting a ton of time. This is how we generally progress, learn from the past and concentrate on what is possible.
This is pretty close to my main thought: you have a make a choice on whether you are chasing stuff that is high reward - low probability (discovery of perpetual energy source more self-propelling than Kardashian-narcissism) or do you spend your time medium reward - high probability to build on the work of those that went before? The world definitely still needs both scientists (as well as everyone else on the spectrum) but how do you think YOU can have the greatest contribution?

Let's be honest: If you aren't incredibly special (not "my mom told me I was special", like "I taste colors and organize my toothbrushes according to number of remaining bristles" special) you aren't going to make much of a dent in the theoretical physics world. Best to put your time into something useful and leave the string theory to those beautiful crazies that might do something with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I'm not special. Just curious. I do appreciate these inputs. I think we're just caught up tradition so much that sometimes it impedes us from even thinking of something. It's like that side of youtube.

I'd say I am in between the two of the scientists you have described. I don't believe in perpetual motion but I do believe in non physical energy and that it can be harnessed. Just haven't figured it out yet

I do believe in multiple universes. And that anything you will ever be or have been already happened, just not here and now.
You think thoughts get tossed down the well by the mind?

I'm a little weird. I think that if something has the power to manifest itself in your mind as thought, it must have the energy to exist somewhere at some point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
554 Posts
I'm not special. Just curious. I do appreciate these inputs. I think we're just caught up tradition so much that sometimes it impedes us from even thinking of something. It's like that side of youtube.

I'd say I am in between the two of the scientists you have described. I don't believe in perpetual motion but I do believe in non physical energy and that it can be harnessed. Just haven't figured it out yet

I do believe in multiple universes. And that anything you will ever be or have been already happened, just not here and now.
You think thoughts get tossed down the well by the mind?

I'm a little weird. I think that if something has the power to manifest itself in your mind as thought, it must have the energy to exist somewhere at some point.
As close to perpetual motion we'll ever get to I envision one day we will be able to harness neutrinos as easily as sound waves and convert it to..whatever. Not unlike the "free" energy that's in the air now that can be used to charge call phones. But that's a LONG ways away. Once we learn how to "split" a neautrino like an atom (or the likeness of spliting it) the future will be mind boggling.

As for your "thought as energy" lol, that's a discussion for another time. One CAN make thoughts become manifestations. There is power in thoughts as well as words. I've learned to be careful of what I say. I could give you a dozen examples of this in my life. Take it or leave it. I've lived it and don't need science to prove it. So your not wierd just inquisitive and yes there is a place for solid science just don't get set in that solidity & rigid structure. There's so much out there we don't know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
554 Posts
"leave the string theory to those beautiful crazies that might do something with it."
The few papers I can actually read that's been coverted to manageable English from the authors of these "beautiful crazies" is mind bending. As Socrates once said of some of his students " they are not of our time".
Amazing minds and incalculable mental horsepower.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,913 Posts
[...]And that anything you will ever be or have been already happened, just not here and now.
Wow, and I thought atheists had a rough defense. Why believe something that is both wholly unproven and wholly un-actionable?

"I believe somewhere there is a goat that can speak English" OK, but what for? And what if he turns out to be a jerk?

I realize trolling your worldview isn't very nice, but I really hope you would never say the above to anyone that didn't already know (and like) you really well. That's definitely not first date material ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I tell anyone who asks but I explain it better in person. Essentially you project a Hamiltonian parabola into a graph with y-axis being 3 dimensional space and x axis being time. If you go up high enough they all intersect. Idk it's weird to explain when it makes sense to you and everyone thinks you're crazy.

Somewhat akin to the multiverse theory. Yes somewhere there is an asshole goat that talks english. I bet he tastes great. I get trolled plenty but it happens. I think it's the best thing to say on a first date. Depending on what you want... haha
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
475 Posts
Not sure if you guys are referring to perpetual motion, perpetual energy and free energy as vacuum energy, also known as zero point energy. It’s been known on paper for a long time now that every inch of space holds more energy than all the stars in our entire galaxy will ever produce in their lifetime. This was also proven not that long ago in a lab environment and dubbed as the Casimir effect.

Extracting just a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of this energy would solve the world’s energy needs. As well as putting many industries out of business; oil, gas, coal, solar, wind, etc. Lots of politics involved in science, just like everywhere else, but that’s another discussion.

I love the fundamentals of string theory. I think its sound…:D... However, I also feel it goes off on too many tangents and gets overly complex.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I don't know the details. How do you harness the Casimir effect? I was thinking quartz or something but I don't really know. I asked one of my professors and he told me to go away
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,731 Posts
I don't know the details. How do you harness the Casimir effect? I was thinking quartz or something but I don't really know. I asked one of my professors and he told me to go away
That was terrific advice
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top