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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For the last year or so I have been eyeballing the Audiofrog Gb60's and Gb15's. Right now i'm running a set of Polk Audio Sr5250's active off a Jl vxi 700/5i for the front stage. I love the Polk tweeters but the 5.25 mid's are a little lacking in punch, thus the need or want for the Gb60's. Guess my biggest questions are 1. With the 75 watts pushing the Gb60's, will that be enough power for decent headroom and performance? 2. Should I dive in and get the Gb15's? They would give me the ability to drop my crossover down (currently 3,500) and possibly raise the stage. 3. What are the sound characteristics of Gb15 vs's the polks? To me the Polk tweeters are really reveling without being harsh. The car is a 2020 Camry with the speakers in the stock location.
 

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For the last year or so I have been eyeballing the Audiofrog Gb60's and Gb15's. Right now i'm running a set of Polk Audio Sr5250's active off a Jl vxi 700/5i for the front stage. I love the Polk tweeters but the 5.25 mid's are a little lacking in punch, thus the need or want for the Gb60's. Guess my biggest questions are 1. With the 75 watts pushing the Gb60's, will that be enough power for decent headroom and performance? 2. Should I dive in and get the Gb15's? They would give me the ability to drop my crossover down (currently 3,500) and possibly raise the stage. 3. What are the sound characteristics of Gb15 vs's the polks? To me the Polk tweeters are really reveling without being harsh. The car is a 2020 Camry with the speakers in the stock location.

Honestly it might barely be enough.. but you would at times be running close to the clipping point of the amplifier which on a class D amp is a big no no for sound quality. My recommendation is get a SECOND of the same VXI amps you have... then you can have 8 mids/highs channels and TWO sub channels. You can then upgrade your sub and upgrade to a 3 way down the line.. because the GB25 is an outstanding driver.. but i will admit the GB60 and GB15 is still a great combo...


Get the JL VXI hub... and boom you've got a killer system with extra power and extra channels shall you decide to upgrade to 3 way down the line.. but the GB10 is better for 3 way so i would do it all at once instead of upgrading down the line...

And honestly the Polk is not even in the same ballpark as the frogs.. the frogs will hold their own against some reference level brands like Scanspeak and Dynaudio in my opinion and many others share my thoughts on it...
 

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and if you do not have room for a second sub remember you can get one dual 2 ohm sub and run one voice coil off of each sub channel of each amp... there is nothing wrong with doing that at all. It does not damage the sub if one turns off or anything funny like people always think...
 

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Oh I forgot to add this in my original post but the reason for the extra channels was to bridge four channels into two big channels for the GB60s - everything else 75watts is more than enough! it might be OK for the GB60s but its debatable... in my opinion it is not enough... but could work if you dont push it
 

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I was in the same situation awhile back with the gb60’s and a helix v8 and considered running them off 75w. I was told by frog and a couple other forum folk that would be just Fine and it might have been but it just didn’t make sense to me/not for a $900 pair of spkrs. I’ve since sold the v8 so I don’t know what the outcome would have been but i will be hearing them off a Mmats 6150 here shortly and have no doubt they will make me happy. For now…;)
 

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75 watts will likely be plenty. Lots of people really overstate wattage requirements for drivers. If your vehicle is reasonably quiet and you don't listen at extreme volume levels, you should be quite happy.
 

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I’ve ran the GB60s with the 8 Chan JL xd and the GS8s with the 8chan vxi. They have both performed exceptionally well. 75 watts is plenty for the GB60s. They also have a decent sensitivity rating. Im
Pretty sure the JLs actually put out more then they report for power. The GB60s are recommended 30-100 watts rms. The JLs can easily make those things bang.
 

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If it was a class A/B amp I would agree 75 watts would be fine.... because they clip alot more gracefully....but class D amps get really nasty towards the clip point.. and they start doing that about 10-15% below the rated power rating taken at 1% THD.... here is a test of the JL VXI... as you can see the distoriton rises sharply past 50-60 watts...

some people like the sound of a class A/B clipping.. but i can assure you during transient peaks nobody likes the sound of a class D amp clipping.. if you see it on an oscilloscope you will be like WTF that looks $hitty!

Rectangle Slope Plot Font Parallel
 

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Most the time you will never be using more than 25-50 watts.. blut like @clange2485 said... when you are running a $900 set of speakers do you really want to cut any corners? I dont..
 

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Well it looks like class D is dog poo per the graphs. You mentioned this is going in a Camry. Did you swap out the head unit? If not your real issues will be with the all pass filters. The power to speakers will be the least of it.
 

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If you are going to use a vxi then I highly recommend bridging 2 channels for the gb60s. It made a world of difference in my car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for all the comments. I would love to go big Cman but this started as a minimal daily driver build with some decent sq. I had thought about adding a amp to either run the mids or the tweeters, I'm thinking the easiest solution would be to bridge the vxi and run a high quality amp for the tweeters. Any recommendations? Was looking at the AudioControl ACM-2.300 But was wondering if a old school class A/b would be a better choice?
Bass Face, yup using the factory head and been trying to wrap my head around what to do about the crappy all pass filters. Now i mostly listen to amazon music through the HU but have been thinking about switching to Tidal and run straight from the phone through a dac and use the optical input on the amp. I have the Drc-205 so I could use a preset just for that. Does that sound like a good plan?
It sucks all these manufactures are limiting all us audio junkies.
 

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Thanks for all the comments. I would love to go big Cman but this started as a minimal daily driver build with some decent sq. I had thought about adding a amp to either run the mids or the tweeters, I'm thinking the easiest solution would be to bridge the vxi and run a high quality amp for the tweeters. Any recommendations? Was looking at the AudioControl ACM-2.300 But was wondering if a old school class A/b would be a better choice?
Bass Face, yup using the factory head and been trying to wrap my head around what to do about the crappy all pass filters. Now i mostly listen to amazon music through the HU but have been thinking about switching to Tidal and run straight from the phone through a dac and use the optical input on the amp. I have the Drc-205 so I could use a preset just for that. Does that sound like a good plan?
It sucks all these manufactures are limiting all us audio junkies.

you dont want to have DSP on half your system and no DSP on the other half... They make a two channel vxi you can get just for the midbass.... then use the 5 channel for your sub, tweeters, and midrange or rear fill if you ever want to expand your system...


if you want to save some coin, you can buy one of these mini mosconi dsp amps.. ive bought from this site before but there is no warranty since youre technically not supposed to sell outside of your dealer area with most car audio brands.. but with high quality items you usually do not have any problems..

 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
With the Vxi and tun I can process the pre outs so adding an amp for the tweeters would be the easiest route BUT you right if I ever wanted to go 3 way i'd be redoing the entire system. I'd love to have another Vxi 700/5, the future would be limitless.
 

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Thanks for all the comments. I would love to go big Cman but this started as a minimal daily driver build with some decent sq. I had thought about adding a amp to either run the mids or the tweeters, I'm thinking the easiest solution would be to bridge the vxi and run a high quality amp for the tweeters. Any recommendations? Was looking at the AudioControl ACM-2.300 But was wondering if a old school class A/b would be a better choice?
Bass Face, yup using the factory head and been trying to wrap my head around what to do about the crappy all pass filters. Now i mostly listen to amazon music through the HU but have been thinking about switching to Tidal and run straight from the phone through a dac and use the optical input on the amp. I have the Drc-205 so I could use a preset just for that. Does that sound like a good plan?
It sucks all these manufactures are limiting all us audio junkies.
As someone who experienced this first hand twice. And definitely not to ruin your plans and what you’ve been looking forward to. Literally nothing in the setup matters until the all pass is figured out. It will wreak all types of havoc regardless of how good or bad your components are.

I hate sounding like a broken record but sorting the all pass vs not sorting it is the main difference between garbage sound and good sound. A/b or d it just won’t matter until the all pass is sorted.

That being said, I would highly recommend the helix mini DSP in front of everything. Or use all line into the VXI and make all your corrections in the TuN software.

The VXi gear though is an absolute beast. Unfortunately my intellectual aptitude doesn’t allow me to really understand the distortion proposition in the above graph but what I do know is they sound fantastic. Additionally I’m a huge old school car audio guy. I love the a/b gear like no other. But class D will continue to dominate the market for a plethora of reasons. If tuned correctly a class d can easily sound as good as or even better.

Best of luck though man hopefully this all turns out awesome.
 

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As someone who experienced this first hand twice. And definitely not to ruin your plans and what you’ve been looking forward to. Literally nothing in the setup matters until the all pass is figured out. It will wreak all types of havoc regardless of how good or bad your components are.

I hate sounding like a broken record but sorting the all pass vs not sorting it is the main difference between garbage sound and good sound. A/b or d it just won’t matter until the all pass is sorted.
exactly this. I still remember the first time I encountered this. Someone brought a car to me to tune in which another shop did OEM integration in an Audi Q7 with the premium system. They did all sorts of summing on the high-level signal. What a trip that was
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
What about the Kicker Keyloc? Isn't it supposed to take care of all of that? I didn't even know about it, Kinda been out of the scene for years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Any Ideas on the phone to dac to amp idea? Don't like the idea of having to look at the phone while driving to change or skip songs but most the time i play a mix and roll.
 
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