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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
In the pursuit to get the best sound possible from your stereo system that features both factory and aftermarket gear, KEYLOC’s patent-pending KEY™ algorithm automatically detects and analyzes crossovers, EQ, time delay, and all-pass filters present, and then it will level-match the left and right audio channels. Once analyzed, it corrects these various filters to give you the smoothest frequency response possible, giving you a clean, uncolored audio signal for your aftermarket gear. Got this from the kicker web site. If not is there any way to tune around them? probably going to order one and get a refund on my Audiocontrol Lci2 pro.
 

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Surprising that nobody has asked OP if his Camry is equipped with the factory JBL system or not. If JBL, PAC makes a preamp interface that solves this whole problem.

If non JBL, base audio, it’s literally just a 2nd order apf around 250hz on the left front midbass channel. The KEYLOC, helix DSP, and VXi processors can correct for this. The KEYLOC can also fix the bass rolloff present, and flatten the FR before sending it to the DSP.

If changing the radio is a non-option, or you don’t like the idea of using a helix DSP with a Bluetooth input card and separate volume controller, then use the KEYLOC and send that fixed output into your DSP.

The KEYLOC also provides a load to the radio outputs, which is needed since the class D amplifier inside of the radio gets hissy when a high impedance load is applied.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Thank you! I was starting to get bummed out thinking there were little options to get around the factory HU. It is non Jbl I knew that the Jbl would not be up to par. Besides the bass roll off I don't think my system as it stands sounds horrible. still need to get on REW and flatten the curve as I have been tuning by ear. Changing the HU is definitely a no go.
 

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I’m not sure who it was here but someone used a Keyloc in their new Sienna and said it was a no go. Made things substantially worse. If you end up getting it please let us know how it turns out.
Additionally, any one of those Audio Control LC units will be awful. I ran the LC7i in my Toyota with stock head unit and VXi on the other end. It was easily the weakest link of the the system. It’s ok but definitely not for an SQ setup. Old unnecessary technology at this point given everything a DSP can do.
 

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Thank you! I was starting to get bummed out thinking there were little options to get around the factory HU. It is non Jbl I knew that the Jbl would not be up to par. Besides the bass roll off I don't think my system as it stands sounds horrible. still need to get on REW and flatten the curve as I have been tuning by ear. Changing the HU is definitely a no go.
Cool. So go try this. Assuming you’ve already input the proper signal delay settings for each channel… On your vxi, apply an allpass filter to the left front output channel. Make the frequency 250hz and the Q 2. See what that does in terms of imaging, cohesiveness, and tonal response.
Font Screenshot Space Symmetry Software
 

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I’m not sure who it was here but someone used a Keyloc in their new Sienna and said it was a no go. Made things substantially worse. If you end up getting it please let us know how it turns out.
Additionally, any one of those Audio Control LC units will be awful. I ran the LC7i in my Toyota with stock head unit and VXi on the other end. It was easily the weakest link of the the system. It’s ok but definitely not for an SQ setup. Old unnecessary technology at this point given everything a DSP can do.
You’re not adding anything useful to the conversation. Just throwing around words and “I read this one day” fluff.

the lc7i wasn’t the reason why your Toyota system sucked. It’s a great piece if you use it in the right application. That wasn’t the right application. Let’s stop blaming perfectly fine gear when it’s really just user error.

sorry to be harsh but it’s frustrating seeing those type of completely off-base comments on here so often.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Thanks, will try tomorrow and let you know. I am going to return my lci2 and get the Keyloc. No matter what I did with the lci2 to regain the bass it always sounded boomy. If I can start flat I can make my curve what ever I want. I love Crutchfield's return policy though they might not love me. Lol
 

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You’re not adding anything useful to the conversation. Just throwing around words and “I read this one day” fluff.

the lc7i wasn’t the reason why your Toyota system sucked. It’s a great piece if you use it in the right application. That wasn’t the right application. Let’s stop blaming perfectly fine gear when it’s really just user error.

sorry to be harsh but it’s frustrating seeing those type of completely off-base comments on here so often.
Not harsh at all Bryce. It's a reflection on you though. It may be off base to you but helpful to others.

The LC7i was the weakest link of my system outside of the all passes. And the reality is, it's antiquated gear now. Not sure what the "right application" is in your eyes. But this Camry and my rig have the same issues.

Another reality is you have no idea what my system sounded like through my whole journey. When I speak about this stuff it's through my own experience. OP however can do whatever he feels is right for his ride.

And finally, your all pass solution proposed above is close but not completely corrected. Maybe you can help explain why :)
 

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Ah, thanks, you’re right. Not the driver side, apply the APF to the passenger side front output channel.
 

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doesn't correct for allpass filters
He is talking about going from the DAC straight into the JL amps.. that will definately bypass the all pass filters because its bypassing the headunit....

BUT you will need to have two different presets in your DSP.. one for running off your headunit and one for running from your DAC player or however you are getting your media player into the DSP..

This is because you are going to have all the EQ to compensate for the stock headunit on one tune.. and then the DAC tune you will simply have a tune correcting for regular EQ just like if you were using an aftermarket headunit with a full range signal..

This is a great idea... yes you wont have hands free calling... but you can switch between presets when a call comes in...


But i think you can get something to fix the allpass filters... im not familiar with JL processors but im sure if not you can use the Kicker Key LOC or JL Fix.. im not sure what but you can get something to fix the all pass filters with the DSP you have.. i would do the DAC and find something to fix the all pass filters..
 

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Thanks, will try tomorrow and let you know. I am going to return my lci2 and get the Keyloc. No matter what I did with the lci2 to regain the bass it always sounded boomy. If I can start flat I can make my curve what ever I want. I love Crutchfield's return policy though they might not love me. Lol

In Toyotas you have low end rolloff.. i cant remember if it continually rolls off or if it starts after a certain volume... i own a Toyota and my stock headunit it in my closet.. but i dont have a harness or else i would do some testing on it.. im just going off memory...

What i do know is if you compensate for this in the DSP you can correct it for the most part.. or use the kicker key combined with the DSP... how you get around the bass rolloff changing at different volumes is a sub volume control...

the all pass filters i was never even aware of that but now it makes sense why my stock headunit sounded like $hit.. LOL
 

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if you want to save some coin, you can buy one of these mini mosconi dsp amps.. ive bought from this site before but there is no warranty since youre technically not supposed to sell outside of your dealer area with most car audio brands.. but with high quality items you usually do not have any problems..

Be aware that the Atomo 4/6 DSP is not a DSP amplifier, but only a DSP.
For a DSP amplifier you have to look at the Pico line of amplifiers from Mosconi (or the D2, but the Picos habe the much more advanced DSP).
 

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Be aware that the Atomo 4/6 DSP is not a DSP amplifier, but only a DSP.
For a DSP amplifier you have to look at the Pico line of amplifiers from Mosconi (or the D2, but the Picos habe the much more advanced DSP).
Oh wow good catch! I guess OP says there are extra processed outputs on his VXI… so he hopefully won’t need another dsp amp..
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I did try placing a all pass filter on the right side mid at 250hz with a q of 2 and switching back and forth really couldn't Tell a difference. Did a little reading up on all pass filters, had no clue on what they really are and how to use them. In my reading one post said that most cars with a center console and 6.5's in the doors could probably use a AP @ 160hz and a q of 5. I may try playing around a little more with all pass.
guess my plan for now is to hold off on new speakers and a amp. exchange the Audiocontrol Lc2i for the Kicker Keloc. Check via REW if the factory bass cut is roll off with volume or just a cut. If it's a roll off i'll try to calibrate the Keyloc around the middle of my normal listening range.
I'm still going to do the direct phone to Dac to amp cause I know that source should be good and it will be a good a-b comparison with the factory head.
Wish I had a place to tuck away my vintage but pristine Eclipse 8052, but then i'd be forced to lug around Cd's again.Lol
 

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For future reference… With a half decent audio interface and some resistors you can measure the phase of an output Chanel on a radio and see the all pass filters exactly should you have the equipment and use room eq wizard 👍🏼
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Is there any threads or other articles that you can point me to so I can learn how
To do this? If I found the factory apf’s how would you get around them? Apf on the other channel? Thanks.
 

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Any Ideas on the phone to dac to amp idea? Don't like the idea of having to look at the phone while driving to change or skip songs but most the time i play a mix and roll.
Yeah, that’d take care of the all-pass issue. Can get a decent digital to digital converter for $100 (but seems to be the low end of decent). It’s just the skipping songs issue but if that’s a trade off you’re willing to make,…
 

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doesn't correct for allpass filters
Appears it does. Copy & paste from Kicker's site:

SIGNAL RESTORATION

In the pursuit to get the best sound possible from your stereo system that features both factory and aftermarket gear, KEYLOC’s patent-pending KEY™ algorithm automatically detects and analyzes crossovers, EQ, time delay, and all-pass filters present, and then it will level-match the left and right audio channels. Once analyzed, it corrects these various filters to give you the smoothest frequency response possible, giving you a clean, uncolored audio signal for your aftermarket gear.


EDIT* And this is why the entire thread should be read before posting!!! Page 2 you guys are all over the KeyLoc. Let us know how it turns out OP.
 

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Best of luck to OP with the Keylock.
I for one would definitely like to know the outcome with these awful Toyota head units. I'm still pretty confident it won't work as advertised.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Lol, Keyloc arrived today. tomorrow I will install and hopefully all is good. Bass Face, have you tried one? You are so negative, I am sure it will be awesome. NOT. I can only hope. It has to be better than the Audiocontrol Lc2i, I could never get the sub volume right and it introduced boominess into the midbass.
The HU is made by Pioneer, it would be sweet if they had a firmware that would get rid of all the factory BS.
 
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