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Discussion Starter #1
I am on my 6th car system and I have come to the realization that throwing money at a stereo doesn't necessarily mean you get better sound.

My tastes have changed over the past decade and I have decided I like to keep things simple (Stock location speakers, no running power cable to battery).

I have done the Subwoofer thing (2 12's in a sealed trunkbox) and regretted it. I have done the HiFi thing (9887, SPX17PRO, PDF amps) and regretted the sound and mostly the money spent. I have made custom fiberglass enclosures and all that is just too much for me now.

I recently took an old set of old stock paper cones and an alpine powerpack and it seemed to have more low frequency punch than the SPX17PRO;s and the Kenwood KFC's I had on before. I thought about just adding some tweeters and x-over in the front and running the car like that. I just don't think the old paper cones will last long (they are so brittle I can put my finger through the woofer with VERY little pressure.

So, can anyone suggest a replacement that is cheap and is very efficient. It will be driven by a deck (oxygen o'car 4x22W RMS) plus an Alpine powerpack (4x45W RMS) and I would like something that can be driven nicely by the power i am supplying it.

Requirements: 5.25 front, ~6.5 rear.

I am also looking for the smallest simplest passive crossover for my tweeters.
 

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thing about stock speaker and good replacements that I have found. most good quality midbasses are not designed to be woofers. they are designed to play in the 80hz+ area and compliment a subwoofer. stock speakers are designed with the idea that is all you have, so they do play lower, with limited power handling. if you dont have a sub, they will sound a little more growly.

simplest crossover for your tweeters, 1 capacitor. just pick the right value for the tweeter.
 

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First-order crossovers are never, ever good enough for tweeters unless your frequency is very high, like 5kHz, which is a bad idea because mids will, at BEST, be too directional at 5kHz - at worst, have awful response there. Second order is thus the minimum.

OP, it sounds to me like pro audio drivers would be up your alley. Simple paper cones, high efficiency, not expected to play down to 2Hz (exaggeration, of course)... Some of them will only play down to ~150Hz, so make sure to avoid those ones...
 

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Discussion Starter #4
^ I did a google sea h and I don't think I could find anything on a brand called "pro audio" I found lots of hits for professional audio equipment and clarion's promaudio line but not anything on a speaker manufacture of that name. Any other info that may help me.
 

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Pro audio isn't a brand name it's a class of speakers. Think home audio, car audio, pro audio. Go to the parts express website for an example and you'll see they have a section just for pro audio. However if you browse the "speakers" section on their site you'll find something to match your needs.
 

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I'm running stock 6.5" Saturn door speakers off a CDA-117, crossed @ 60 hz, and a sub. Sounds great to me.

I would still consider at least a small sub to fill in the low notes. After getting used to having bass response, removing that makes the system sound very shrill to my ears. I've been building a new sub box this week, and I can't wait to get my lows back.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I did try to install the spx17 pros last night despite how I feel
About the sound of them I just wanted some sound for now. I dropped one from 8 inch off the ground. It landed on the magnet and this caused the cone in the centre of the woofer to become loose. Apparently they aren't very robust speakers either. Now they rattle when playing.
 

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Dude, you drop any speaker and it will most likely break.

As far as the sub, you can run a single ten in a .5 cube box that will take up no space and you could try maybe bolting it down so no matter how hard you drive it will stay put.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Dude, you drop any speaker and it will most likely break.

As far as the sub, you can run a single ten in a .5 cube box that will take up no space and you could try maybe bolting it down so no matter how hard you drive it will stay put.

I understand it's not meant to be dropped. On a related note however I did drop a stock speaker of the top of the car once and it's still running fine.

I really don't want a sub unless I can put it in the rear deck and run it IB. Having it powered by that powerpack I just can't see a sub doing much with that little power.
 

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IB is perfect then. U don't need as much power, takes up no space, seems like a great answer to me. If you bridge 2 channels on that thing could you squeeze out 100 watts? I'm sure you could put a 12 in the rear deck and get PLENTY of output on that much power. I ran a pair of 12's IB on 150w each and they could get very loud.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
IB is perfect then. U don't need as much power, takes up no space, seems like a great answer to me. If you bridge 2 channels on that thing could you squeeze out 100 watts? I'm sure you could put a 12 in the rear deck and get PLENTY of output on that much power. I ran a pair of 12's IB on 150w each and they could get very loud.

I don't think you can bridge this thing, can you?
 

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I am on my 6th car system and I have come to the realization that throwing money at a stereo doesn't necessarily mean you get better sound.

My tastes have changed over the past decade and I have decided I like to keep things simple (Stock location speakers, no running power cable to battery).

I have done the Subwoofer thing (2 12's in a sealed trunkbox) and regretted it. I have done the HiFi thing (9887, SPX17PRO, PDF amps) and regretted the sound and mostly the money spent. I have made custom fiberglass enclosures and all that is just too much for me now.

I recently took an old set of old stock paper cones and an alpine powerpack and it seemed to have more low frequency punch than the SPX17PRO;s and the Kenwood KFC's I had on before. I thought about just adding some tweeters and x-over in the front and running the car like that. I just don't think the old paper cones will last long (they are so brittle I can put my finger through the woofer with VERY little pressure.

So, can anyone suggest a replacement that is cheap and is very efficient. It will be driven by a deck (oxygen o'car 4x22W RMS) plus an Alpine powerpack (4x45W RMS) and I would like something that can be driven nicely by the power i am supplying it.

Requirements: 5.25 front, ~6.5 rear.

I am also looking for the smallest simplest passive crossover for my tweeters.
Alpine comps certainly aren't my favorite, but you are doing something really, really wrong if the 20 cent stock speakers sound better. Those Alpines probably wont get much of an opportunity to show what they can do off of 45 watts, give them some power maybe? Some people really like them.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Alpine comps certainly aren't my favorite, but you are doing something really, really wrong if the 20 cent stock speakers sound better. Those Alpines probably wont get much of an opportunity to show what they can do off of 45 watts, give them some power maybe? Some people really like them.

I gave it a PDX 4.100 amp. It's not that it wasn't clear, but It didn't not sound as good low. The stock speakers produced more bass without distortion, the cones moved further.
 

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I gave it a PDX 4.100 amp. It's not that it wasn't clear, but It didn't not sound as good low. The stock speakers produced more base without distortion, the cones moved further.
Sounds like that might be an installation issue? Again, I'm not a big Alpine fan, but I can't imagine them sounding worse than stock if installed half decent.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
I couldn't imagine either but I had 2 SPX17PRO's and 2 OEM speakers in the same car/setup and the OEM produced better bass. I suppose it could be a crossover setting issue, but I did the distance measurements and installed the chip indicated in the manual. I also compared just the woofer without any sound processing filters and got the same result.

It's not that the midrange was clearer on the OE drivers when you push them, then the alpines sound better, but when you put any bass to them they would start to sound flappy before the OE drivers.
 

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I think you're dealing with an enclosure issue, personally. The alpines are a totally different speaker and therefore have different parameters than the stock speakers. The stock speakers are likely optimized for free-air, or large enclosure response. The Alpines may need an enclosure, or a partial enclosure to meet their maximum potential.

I once had a Boston Pro 6.5 set that was disappointing. That vehicle had stock plastic pods for the speakers. The pods originally had many slotted vents in the rear, essentially a free air design. As an experiment I hot glued some ABS plastic over all the vents, except one. The speakers midbass became much more apparent.

I know my technique was not very scientific in this case, but it shows the difference that can be had with a different enclosure.

I'm sure you're familiar with this, but what comes to mind for me is putting a single midrange in a leaky speaker cabinet the size of a car door and putting it in my living room. It would probably sound terrible. But in a bookshelf size, sealed, would probably sound decent.

For an efficient, inexpensive speaker I would look at Power Base. I tried some of their coaxials and was impressed when compared to cost.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I think you're dealing with an enclosure issue, personally. The alpines are a totally different speaker and therefore have different parameters than the stock speakers. The stock speakers are likely optimized for free-air, or large enclosure response. The Alpines may need an enclosure, or a partial enclosure to meet their maximum potential.

I once had a Boston Pro 6.5 set that was disappointing. That vehicle had stock plastic pods for the speakers. The pods originally had many slotted vents in the rear, essentially a free air design. As an experiment I hot glued some ABS plastic over all the vents, except one. The speakers midbass became much more apparent.

I know my technique was not very scientific in this case, but it shows the difference that can be had with a different enclosure.

I'm sure you're familiar with this, but what comes to mind for me is putting a single midrange in a leaky speaker cabinet the size of a car door and putting it in my living room. It would probably sound terrible. But in a bookshelf size, sealed, would probably sound decent.

For an efficient, inexpensive speaker I would look at Power Base.
Thanks for the powerbass suggestion.

I think anyone selling car audio 6.5 speakers should assume they will be put in a door. Not to do so is idiocy, and not to inform the consumer that the speaker requires a specific enclosure is bad business. I know I will not buy another Alpine speaker EVER because I once bough their top of the line speaker and it sucked.
 
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