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I’ve used the auto RTA on my helix dsp.2 with pretty good results. How does Dirac live compare. I’m considering getting one of the 8x12s to replace the Helix for better results.
 

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After basic XO is set,

Just Setup your mic,

Click through illustrated software to acquire 9 or so measurements,

Set your house curve,

Save and load the calculated correction filter...

and simple as that you’ll have T/A’d, EQ’d, and phase corrected tune.

In regards to an “auto tune”, Dirac is a smarter algorithm that does more of the work for you.
 

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My understading is that the actual process is very similar - you still have to set crossovers, speaker levels and time alignment yourself - these "auto" processes just help with the EQ part.

However, the real difference here is how the two products do the EQ "internally". The DiracLive setup uses FIR filters whereas the Helix uses IR filters. Most people say that you will get better results with FIR filters - it's a completely different way of EQ'ing, from what I understand. Something to do with it being able to hit the target curve much closer with less phase issues.

So the actually process isn't the big difference - it's how they work internally that is what separates the two. Again, from what I've heard, most people generally agrees that the DiracLive will do a better job - well, most poeple except for the Helix folks. :)

Don't get me wrong - I have a Helix DSP.3 and love it. I have never used the MiniDSP w/DiracLive - but from what I gather it's technically a better way of EQ'ing....

Would be great if someone could offer a more "technical" explanation as to why FIR filters are better than IR filters...

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I have both Helix DSP Pro mk2 and 2 Dirac units (DDRC-22D and DDRC24).

The Dirac is an extremely intuitive and guided process for nearly anyone unfamiliar with tuning to get through.

Same initial XO setup as Helix. Depending on your setup and how you are using Dirac. Pre T/A may apply or not.

The steps I mentioned in my previous post, are literally the illustrated screens you click through to complete a tune with the Dirac Live Tool.

Dirac Live is more of a room correction approach that will EQ the signal to your desired house curve using “mixed filters” (IIR, FIR, All Pass, and proprietary algorithm). Dirac ALSO corrects in the time domain and attempts to improve the impulse response of the system.

The Helix Auto Tune will only EQ adjust the signal via RTA and IIR filters to a set curve. It does not alter anything in the time domain.

Which one is better depends on what your looking for. But given the same amount of time the Dirac Live calibration will employ a bevy of tools to correct the signal that the Helix Auto RTA will not.
 

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How in the world is only China company mini dsp the only company doing Dirac live? Boggles the mind
I mentioned this in another thread, but at lesat for the Helix folks, they have determined that FIR filters are not "beneficial" for in-car use.... Don't shoot the messenger. :)

They say that they are not looking to add that type of capability to their products as they do not see the benefit.

Personallly, I have a hard time believeing that based on what people say about DiracLive on the MiniDSP. Then again, as stated above, DiracLive is more than "just" FIR filters, but I believe it's one of the main principals it uses to accomplish it's goals?
 

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I had a long reply typed up but decided it's better not to stir the pot.

I will say I do believe we are witnessing the beginnings of a consumer market shift in available DSP technology.
 

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I mentioned this in another thread, but at lesat for the Helix folks, they have determined that FIR filters are not "beneficial" for in-car use.... Don't shoot the messenger. :)

They say that they are not looking to add that type of capability to their products as they do not see the benefit.
Its not just that they may or may not be beneficial. There are other drawbacks to them that typically do not effect a car audio hobbyist, but would absolutely be a no-go for a customer just looking for a good car audio system. The biggest one being the amount of delay it puts on the signal has major drawbacks when interfacing into an OEM system, which is what most customers are doing nowadays. From a business perspective, its better to have the processing power used on OEM integration abilities as opposed to FIR filters, which would probably only be used properly by like 4 people lol
 

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How in the world is only China company mini dsp the only company doing Dirac live? Boggles the mind
because they do far more business than any car audio company in the DSP category and can afford the licensing and development. On top of that, their stuff is also usually for studio or home audio, or car audio hobbyists where knowledge on this stuff is much more common in individuals. The truth is, there aren't many people out there even halfway capable of running a simple auto-tune in a car audio system (unfortunately this generalization includes professional installers), even if it has instructions. Including more features, for better or worse, is a business decision nightmare that will eat up tech supports time, and only cause frustration to end users who will then come onto some silly site like this and bash whatever product without knowing wtf they were doing. You should see the amount of ridiculous questions ive been sent after making and posting my hot-to video on using the Helix rta/auto eq. I have zero faith in a typical car audio hobbyist to be able to run these more complex auto-eq's or anything correctly or efficiently. Just not worth it.
 

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... is a business decision nightmare that will eat up tech supports time, and only cause frustration to end users who will then come onto some silly site like this and bash ...
Excellent point... was part of my long reply that I didn't post. I can't imagine the support nightmare Audison is likely dealing with their Bit HD. So many people that just want to buy the best / most expensive and have no clue how to make proper use of it. And I would add most resellers don't even know how to properly setup a DSP as it is which adds to the support nightmare.
 

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And I would add most resellers don't even know how to properly setup a DSP as it is which adds to the support nightmare.
Absolutely this. You guys arent going to like to hear this, but car audio manufacturers arent making products for you guys, the diy hobbyists. They're making it for installers, because this is how the car audio business model works. There might be maybe 3 or 4 shops in the US that actually dig in and tune every dsp they install to a reasonable potential. You would be shocked at the tunes I've seen come out of these "high end", well respected shops. You wouldnt even believe me if I started listing names. Funny enough, a meme was posted on an industry only Facebook group that made fun of customers who want to watch you while you tune.. had a ton of likes and comments, some of which were by people that I know dont know dick all about tuning and/or dont even tune the dsp's they install and it didnt sit right with me. I'm sure you know me by now, and I couldnt not say anything lol.. of all people Joey of Simplicity In Sound replied to my comment how he thinks me and steve cook might be the only 2 shops in the country that actually tune our customers cars. It's kinda sad.


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As I understand things, Helix basically just has the same old autotune technology as has been available for years, which is flattening frequency response and doing time alignment. Dirac is a whole new thing where it finds all kinds of ways of reducing comb filtering and inferring the position of cabin boundaries to eliminate the negative effects of reflection.

It’s extremely annoying that both Dirac and upmixing aren’t more widely available. For example, Audio Control includes both of these technologies in their home theater products. My best guess on the explanation is that Harman and/or car manufacturers has some kind of exclusive rights or patent prohibitions inhibiting audio manufacturers from introducing competing products. For example, maybe their Logic7 patents or business agreements with car makers, make it impossible for aftermarket companies to include these technologies in their products. MiniDSP is a DIY company and maybe that’s why they are able to circumvent whatever the prohibition is. Sucks to be riding a horse when cars have already been invented.
 

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There are other drawbacks to them... The biggest one being the amount of delay it puts on the signal has major drawbacks when interfacing into an OEM system...
Indeed. The Dirac Live processing on current miniDSP hardware introduces a ~13ms latency delay to the signal.
 

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Indeed. The Dirac Live processing on current miniDSP hardware introduces a ~13ms latency delay to the signal.
yeah, now imaging being your average every day customer who just really wanted a kick ass system and then them trying to have a simple hands free bluetooth conversation through the oem radio for the first time since getting it installed. there would be an angry phone call every time.. The bluetooths echo cancellation and noise cancellation is out the window and makes it impossible to have a conversation. This is one reason alone that they mentioned they dont want to introduce FIR filters
 

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yeah, now imaging being your average every day customer who just really wanted a kick ass system and then them trying to have a simple hands free bluetooth conversation through the oem radio for the first time since getting it installed. there would be an angry phone call every time.. The bluetooths echo cancellation and noise cancellation is out the window and makes it impossible to have a conversation. This is one reason alone that they mentioned they dont want to introduce FIR filters
I have literally zero experience integrating with an OEM headunit… but why wouldn't this 13ms delay also affect Bluetooth calls on an aftermarket headunit?
 

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I have literally zero experience integrating with an OEM headunit… but why wouldn't this 13ms delay also affect Bluetooth calls on an aftermarket headunit?
The aftermarket head units dont have the same echo cancellation and noise reduction that OEM ones do. The oem ones are very specific to the point where sometimes even adding a regular processor messes with how it sounds on both ends. There is more than just bluetooth that it can effect and there were other reasons that julian went into on why they dont want to poke that fire so to say, but we didnt go into great detail, and/or I dont fully remember as there was a lot of alcohol going around that weekend lol

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