[Smittydog]

I finished up my install and following is a brief description. Helix v8 running hertz 163.3 active front on 6 of the channels and 2 remaining running stock rear speakers at a very low volume and set up as rear fill. Also have 2 Alpine s series 10s on a hifonics bx1000D. Sundown saz-1500D on the way for the subs. Stock B&O head unit in an f250, nav tv a2b with optical cable connecting signal to Helix. Rca outs from helix to BX amp.

I'm new with the DSP but think I have it tuned in pretty reasonably. I read both the helix sound magazines and the sound quality and imaging is excellent. Sure I can improve and will spend many more hours playing with it.

My issue concern is with the volume of my mid bass volume level. I have to turn the reciver volume most of the way up to get decent output. I'm using the optical input so gain setting on the amp is not adjustable. I have the gains in the dsp for both mid bass channels turned up 5 db, mids knocked down a bunch along with tweets. I'm getting about 90 db and was expecting a little more. Am I expecting to much from 1 pair of 6.5s and subs? I feel like i'm missing a gain adjustment somewhere. Similar systems I had years ago would top 100 to 110. Maybe my old systems were bass heavy and not tuned to a reference curve?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[ItsonlyaHONDA]

How are your doors treated? Are they sealed properly? 75rms is the drawback of the Helix V series. That and door nulls for the midbass area will always lack impact.

 

[SkizeR]

75rms is the drawback of the Helix V series.

Most would be surprised. 75 watts is plenty for most. Im betting that gain structure is not optimized. Every time someone complains about this and I try to help, this is the issue. Input gains, virtual channels, and output channels all need to be leveled correctly.

 

[Smittydog]

I applied kilmat to the inside of the doors and door face along with block off plates for the big holes in the door. Mdf plates with speakers pushed out towards the doors. Speaker face is still at least an inch from the stock grill. May need to move it out further or put some of the foam rings on em. Wonder how much energy i'm losing firing at and through the opening in the door.

 

[Smittydog]

I bet Skize is on it. Something doesn't seem correct on gains to me. I'll dig into that next. Is that covered in the helix rags or any link to some tips?

 

[ItsonlyaHONDA]

I applied kilmat to the inside of the doors and door face along with block off plates for the big holes in the door. Mdf plates with speakers pushed out towards the doors. Speaker face is still at least an inch from the stock grill. May need to move it out further or put some of the foam rings on em. Wonder how much energy i'm losing firing at and through the opening in the door.

Sounds like your doors are sealed, sound skin rings can help direct your midbass into the cabin. I'm running 200 RMS to my GB60S and I felt like midbass was also lacking but I think I was just expecting too much from door mounted midbasses.

 

[Dwarteacher]

I'm running 200 RMS to my GB60S and I felt like midbass was also lacking but I think I was just expecting too much from door mounted midbasses.

To be fair you only have a basic helix autotune going right now. You got to get in there and trim the midbass fat and tighten up the phase.
Take those GB60s from a sumo wrestler to a world-class track star.

 

[ItsonlyaHONDA]

To be fair you only have a basic helix autotune going right now. You got to get in there and trim the midbass fat and tighten up the phase.
Take those GB60s from a sumo wrestler to a world-class track star.

I'm not taking it that far with these. Replacement in the works. The auto tune did a great job though. I have em crossed at 80 and I'm giving them full power. They are doing what i want them to do withough flying apart. I'm not saying they are not capable cuz they are. And I'm not replacing them to get more impact, that's what my front sub is for. I'm just curious to see if a more expensive midbass will outperfor the GBs. I'll take mesurment before tuning and after tunning with both and see if their is a significant difference. I have a terrible response from 100-200 and a lil above 300. It may just be room nulls but curiosity made me spend a pretty penny on other midbasses.

 

[Dwarteacher]

I'm not taking it that far with these. Replaced in the works. The auto tune did a great job though. I have em crossed at 80 and I'm giving them full power. They are doing what i want them to do withough flying apart. I'm not saying they are not capable cuz they are. And I'm not replacing them to get more impact, that's what my front sub is for. I'm just curious to see if a more expensive midbass will outperfor the GBs. I'll take mesurment before tuning and after tunning with both and see if their is a significant difference. I have a terrible response from 100-200 and a lil above 300. It may just be room nulls but curiosity made me spend a pretty penny on other midbasses.

ok. what are you replacing them with?

As far as power goes, 75 watts can get you pretty loud, unless their highly inefficient drivers
I just got around to installing TM65 mkIV, and I'm running them on deck power of about 15 watts and they get reasonably loud. Midbass is snappy, accurate, and smooth, and the vocals are good, too.
I'm running them with only a highpass of 75hz fourth order, and I swear it sounds like I have a tweeter. Hopefully, get a chance to install everything before it gets too cold here.

To the op, the lacking of midbass could be the sub is playing too high, no phase cohesion between sub and midbass, or as stated, wrong gain structure.
I struggled with the same problem, but mine turned out to be sub-playing too high, and the phase between sub and midbass wasn't correct.

 

[ItsonlyaHONDA]

ok. what are you replacing them with?

😇 Sax ii

 

[Smittydog]

I found the gain under virtual channel and resolved my volume issue. Now I need to get my new sundown sub amp in and retune everthing. Got about 15 or 20 hours in playing with the helix tuning and starting to figure some things out. First mistake I made when tuning it was going right to autotune without some rough gain and crossover adjustments to get in the ballpark. Learning curve is steep and i'm still on it. Reminds me of computer models I used to run. Adjust parameters, run rta, analyze output, devise solution, implement and repeat until satisfied. Probably never reach satisfaction...

 

[JVD240]

There is also an overall digital input volume under the IO tab.

In my BMW with SDMI25/V TWELVE I was able to bring this up to +10dB with no negative effects.

If you're making BIG cuts this will probably be necessary. As you've noticed, this can be accomplished elsewhere like virtual channels or even the output levels for each driver.

As mentioned, 75W is lots of power. You should be able to get significant output assuming you have proper gain structure.

 

[Smittydog]

I will check that one out also. Thanks for the tips!

 

[Muu]

Was going to say, many of these sdpif adapters put unity out at -10dbFS. Often it's worth getting a cheap usb sound card with optical in so you can feed back into rew to check your digital signal path.

 

[Smittydog]

Thanks for the tip and I'll put that on my todo list. Currently enjoying the tune I managaged with the Helix dsp software and giving it a little time before I go down the REW rabbit hole. I made some fine tuning adjustments on my time delays yesterday and tightened the imaging up significantly. Not very scientific. Got it close with a tape measue and made adjustments until it centered up real nice in the middle of the dash. My wife already thinks i'm crazy spending all the time messing with it now. Gotta give it some time before I get sucked in to REW.