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Discussion Starter #1
i'm running focal 165 vb in the front doors of my suv. they are being driven by a JL HD900 amp, running passive.

the mid bass drivers are in the front lower doors. the tweeters are flush mounted just above the mid-bass drivers, 8 inches center to center.

the tonality is great but i'm experiencing this bizarre irritating mid to high frequency imaging problem-

vocals, especially female, seem to have an overly strong left position bias. even with some balance added to favor the right side by 3, 4 or 5, the vocals still seem to be coming from left of center.

when i finally compensate enough with the balance control to center the vocals as best as I can, the vocal stage still tends to drift to the left, especially the highest frequencies- its very wierd- the vocals will be coming from the center and then the singer will hit some higher notes and the image shifts left. it is very noticeable and very bad.

all speakers are wired in phase.

thanks in advance!
 

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It is probably due to mounting locations and odd reflections....my advice would be play with changing mounting locations and aiming the tweeters. Also going active would give you more flexibility regarding xover points, time alignment, and EQ (L/R depending on the DSP)
 

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The 2-4khz range is hotter from the far side due to beaming and upper mid range frequencies being hotter from the drivers that are more on axis. Fader control is not going to solve the issue. You will need seperate L/R eq to solve the issue.
 

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The 2-4khz range is hotter from the far side due to beaming and upper mid range frequencies being hotter from the drivers that are more on axis. Fader control is not going to solve the issue. You will need seperate L/R eq to solve the issue.
you mean near side unless you forget we drive on the Left hand side of the car:D

Otherwise I agree with both posts above

speaker location problem, more so the close proximity of you in relation to the left side speaker and a freq response problem
Time alignment alone will not solve the problem, you need to be able to eq
1.6-4khz area but centered more around 2-3khz
 

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you mean near side unless you forget we drive on the Left hand side of the car:D
Yeah, I forgot you'll do everything differently. Month before date, drive on the wrong side of the road.....:D
 

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Discussion Starter #6
gentlemen, thanks for the replies.
The idea of altering left / right EQ is just not kosher to me, I want both front seats to receive the same sound except for a slight balance correction. My setup does not allow this either.
I moved the Focal tweeters from the stock locations (upper door, just below sail panels) because they were too bright and I believe I heard phase distortion.
Now that I've drilled nice holes in my lower door panels I guess I'll move them back to the stock locations and try to reverse their phase relative to the midwoofers. At least I did not have this imaging problem when the tweeters were there.
 

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Both seats will never receive the same sound because you're listening to music in a car. 2 seat set ups in a car are a myth and a compromise for both sides. You can place the drivers anywhere but unless you use dsp you'll always have issues with staging, imaging and tonality in a car.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
well to close out this thread, thankfully you guys were correct- moving the tweeters back up to the upper door stock locations did the trick.
there must have been some crazy reflections and image spraying taking place to bias the vocals so heavily to the driver's side- possibly center console blocking the passenger side sound and the steering column reflecting the driver's side output- it was really a bizarre wild image that I am happy to be rid of.
without individual EQ or time alignment I am truly pleased with the stage at this point. once again i believe my vehicle's engineers spent lots of time determining the position and aiming of the tweeters- what a total difference.

I cannot understand why manufactures like HAT recommend you place the tweeters either coaxially or very close to the mid-bass driver.
it seems like bright sounding tweeters or some phase distortion experieced when putting the tweeters up high are issues that are much easier to correct than the image issues I was experiencing with the tweeters down low, even aiming to what appeared to be an unobstructed line of sight.
 
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