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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys
I’m driving a rather large minivan. A Toyota Vellfire (might not be common in your countries). Here’s my setup:

Front: Focal Flax PS165FE 2 Way
Rear: Focal Flax PS165FE 2 Way
DSP/Amp: MOSCONI D2 100.4 DSP
Sub: Helix U10A

Just wondering which is the weaker link ? Should I upgrade my speakers to the K2 or WXP ? Or perhaps a 3 way speaker ?

Or should I upgrade my DSP & AMP to Helix separates ?

Thank you!
 

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Hi guys
I’m driving a rather large minivan. A Toyota Vellfire (might not be common in your countries). Here’s my setup:

Front: Focal Flax PS165FE 2 Way
Rear: Focal Flax PS165FE 2 Way
DSP/Amp: MOSCONI D2 100.4 DSP
Sub: Helix U10A

Just wondering which is the weaker link ? Should I upgrade my speakers to the K2 or WXP ? Or perhaps a 3 way speaker ?

Or should I upgrade my DSP & AMP to Helix separates ?

Thank you!
What are you powering the sub with? How/where are the speakers mounted?
 

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If you haven't deadened the doors, that should be your first thing to do. If you have, well...I've heard many people say that Focal speakers are a bit bright. Oh, one thing I noticed, you are running component speakers and you have a DSP. Are you running active or passive?
 

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I'm curious what the issue is exactly? OP hasn't stated what he dislikes or feels the issue is.

Everything you have seems very capable.

As others mentioned, Is everything properly installed, proper sound treatments, who did the tuning, was it tuned properly, etc. many variables at play with nothing for us to go off of.

In theory, the Focal Flax are the weakest link but I'm not familiar with all the equipment. 2 way can sound really good but 3way would bring it to the next level. I think the Flax line is great for it's price point. Maybe they don't produce the sound you prefer.

What types of music do you listen to?

If the Mosconi built in DSP is the same as an external unit, there would be no benefit to separate components. For example, Arc series amps, the built in PS8 DSP is identical to their PS8 Pro external unit....so there is no benefit except if you change amps. Otherwise it does exactly the same thing and performance is the same
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yup! Sound deadening is done on all 4 doors. Forgot to mention it 😅. It’s a passive setup using the crossover from the Focal Flax.

Have you performed any sound deadening?
If you haven't deadened the doors, that should be your first thing to do. If you have, well...I've heard many people say that Focal speakers are a bit bright. Oh, one thing I noticed, you are running component speakers and you have a DSP. Are you running active or passive?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I'm curious what the issue is exactly? OP hasn't stated what he dislikes or feels the issue is.

Everything you have seems very capable.

As others mentioned, Is everything properly installed, proper sound treatments, who did the tuning, was it tuned properly, etc. many variables at play with nothing for us to go off of.

In theory, the Focal Flax are the weakest link but I'm not familiar with all the equipment. 2 way can sound really good but 3way would bring it to the next level. I think the Flax line is great for it's price point. Maybe they don't produce the sound you prefer.

What types of music do you listen to?

If the Mosconi built in DSP is the same as an external unit, there would be no benefit to separate components. For example, Arc series amps, the built in PS8 DSP is identical to their PS8 Pro external unit....so there is no benefit except if you change amps. Otherwise it does exactly the same thing and performance is the same
to be honest, I’m not exactly dissatisfied with the current setup. I’m just thinking since I had this setup for quite awhile, if there is a way to further enhance the system to make it sound even better ?

tuning was done by a professional shop but they are always trying to upsell stuff. Hence I figured I might get better answers here than to just blindly listen to the salesperson.

I listen to mainly vocals, classic songs, pop, Louis Armstrong, Aretha Franklin, Adele, Michael Buble, etc.

Was told that a class AB amplifier would sound better and that my amplifier is too “weak”. Hence wanted to check with you guys.
 

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to be honest, I’m not exactly dissatisfied with the current setup. I’m just thinking since I had this setup for quite awhile, if there is a way to further enhance the system to make it sound even better ?

tuning was done by a professional shop but they are always trying to upsell stuff. Hence I figured I might get better answers here than to just blindly listen to the salesperson.

I listen to mainly vocals, classic songs, pop, Louis Armstrong, Aretha Franklin, Adele, Michael Buble, etc.

Was told that a class AB amplifier would sound better and that my amplifier is too “weak”. Hence wanted to check with you guys.
Thanks for some clarification.
There can always be something better. I have been curious about going back to class AB as well but the majority keep saying that good class D is just as good. My last system, 20+yrs ago was AB, I don't even recall if much of class D was even around back then. So far I have not been overly impressed with current tech but I think the majority of my issue is streaming music compared to CD's

I currently have the Focal Flax PS165 FXE and listening to a good recording, Stevie Ray Vaughn and music like you listen to can sound pretty amazing.
My latest experience with amps has been a small 5ch Rockford (T10005Xad) It was an excellent amp that I was happy with. I recently changed things up. I'm now running 6x6.5" subs off a D4sound JP23 and Focals off a JP234. It's okay but I feel like something is lacking in comparison from the Rockford. No DSP ATM.

I recently got persuaded into running BLAM signature/multix 3 way with 8" Midbass along with Arc Audio amps with DSP. I haven't had the chance to get the BLAM's installed yet not the Arc amps. I've been told this should be itand I should be extremely happy. We'll see.

So everything has been class D. On the other hand, I have also seen some members post that there is still a big difference in running a quality class AB or A. I don't know what to believe.

I also have a buddy on here that is running all AudioFrog except for his 8" midbass which are Audio Dynamics neo8's I believe; running on all JL VXi amps. He just had it tuned and says it's amazing and I trust his word.

So in your case, i don't really have an answer. even higher end speakers like K2, AF, Morel, BLAM, etc would definitely take you to another level. As mentioned before, I am not familiar with your amps but I though most Mosconi amps were class AB. I guess maybe not the ones with built in DSP. Mosconi are typically highly regarded, so IDK.

I imagine others with better experience/ knowledge will eventually chime in. I will be curious to see what you end up doing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
In order to go active 3 way front, I was looking at the KX3. Does it mean I have to sell my Mosconi D2100.4 DSP and change to a separate system ?

I’d definitely go to an active three way front end and sacrifice rears in favour of this option

but that means a better dsp and amps, but it’s a 100% upgrade! 👍🏼 Sound quality done right will be off the charts better vs current setup
 

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Ideally, yes, you would. That will give you complete control over each driver individually. That doesn't mean that have to, or that you can't do it in stages. In my limited experience, the tweeter is pretty much useless. Sure you need it, but most of the musical content is in the midrange. In my opinion, there's never too much midbass, so I'd separate them off onto their own amplifier channels and use the the other channels to drive the mids and tweeters, with the passive crossover providing the split. As time and money allow, you can upgrade your DSP to get full control over each...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Seems like quite a huge budget required as I’ll need to essentially change the entire system. Speakers, Amp, DSP.

do u think it’ll make sense if I remove my 2 way focal flax evo and replace with K2 series 3 way ? But still I’ll face an issue of the mosconi dsp+amp not having enough channels.

Geez this driving me nuts. What’s the best way to upgrade progressively ? Change off the amp+dsp into separates and more channel first ?

Ideally, yes, you would. That will give you complete control over each driver individually. That doesn't mean that have to, or that you can't do it in stages. In my limited experience, the tweeter is pretty much useless. Sure you need it, but most of the musical content is in the midrange. In my opinion, there's never too much midbass, so I'd separate them off onto their own amplifier channels and use the the other channels to drive the mids and tweeters, with the passive crossover providing the split. As time and money allow, you can upgrade your DSP to get full control over each...
 

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RP, it all depends on what you're wanting it to do. Right now you just say that you want it to sound "even better." What doesn't it do now? Not loud enough? Not enough bass? You have great gear, so swapping gear won't make it "better" like you're wanting. Don't let it turn into a money pit. Post up what you're wanting, and if you're not vague, there's likely a solution.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I’m quite new to this and I don’t know how to gauge a system well so pardon me.I’m really not sure as I don’t have the opportunity to try other cars and compare so I guess I don’t know what “better” sounds like. I just thought that by upgrading I’ll be able to discover a whole new level of listening experience.

One thing for sure is that my volume maxes out at 30 and I always have to set the level to 25-26 then the music will come alive. Is that an amplifier issue ?

Second question is that the shop was offering a 165W-XP for same price as the KX3. Just wondering would the higher end 2 way sound better than the middle tier 3 way?


RP, it all depends on what you're wanting it to do. Right now you just say that you want it to sound "even better." What doesn't it do now? Not loud enough? Not enough bass? You have great gear, so swapping gear won't make it "better" like you're wanting. Don't let it turn into a money pit. Post up what you're wanting, and if you're not vague, there's likely a solution.
 

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"One thing for sure is that my volume maxes out at 30 and I always have to set the level to 25-26 then the music will come alive. Is that an amplifier issue ?"

Using an eq will fix that.
 

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One thing for sure is that my volume maxes out at 30 and I always have to set the level to 25-26 then the music will come alive. Is that an amplifier issue ?

Second question is that the shop was offering a 165W-XP for same price as the KX3. Just wondering would the higher end 2 way sound better than the middle tier 3 way?
If you're not getting the most from the stuff you're using now, you won't benefit from "better" gear. If the shop is doing your tuning, have them continue working on it if you're not satisfied. Don't let them say one amp is better than another or "upsell" you into Class ABs. Personally, I think that's all nonsense. I've never had anything other than Class D, and they do excellent. In fact, if I told everyone that demo'd my setup that the amps were Class ABs, they wouldn't be able to tell any difference.

Stick with what you got and make them tune it better. Or better yet, ask to watch them tune it...and call out their BS if they're doing it wrong
 

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I had the 165W-XP and they were a GREAT set of 2-ways. Only reason I switched from them was to go with a 3-way (not Focal).

I know the 165W-XP Utopia's cost the same as the KX3 set, but IMO, the 165W-XP has a better Woofer and Tweeter, so the only advantage of the KX3 is the mid-range.

You could go with the 165W-XP set which will sound WAY better than your current fronts and then if you want to go 3-way down the road, simply add the Focal MW3.5's...

I would switch your speakers before switching your amps...

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
You could go with the 165W-XP set which will sound WAY better than your current fronts and then if you want to go 3-way down the road, simply add the Focal MW3.5's...
This sounds like the perfect plan. I guess I’ll go ahead with the W-XP.

In that case I’m now considering between the Helix P Six DSP mk2 and V Eight DSP Mk2.

Should I be running the w-xp active or passive ? I’ve been hearing that active setup is way better than passive.

Am I right to say if running active, then I’ll need 4 channels in the front (active) and 2 channels for the rear (passive) ? In that case the P Six is just right. However if I were to upgrade to 3 way in future then the V Eight would be a better option?
 

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This sounds like the perfect plan. I guess I’ll go ahead with the W-XP.

In that case I’m now considering between the Helix P Six DSP mk2 and V Eight DSP Mk2.

Should I be running the w-xp active or passive ? I’ve been hearing that active setup is way better than passive.

Am I right to say if running active, then I’ll need 4 channels in the front (active) and 2 channels for the rear (passive) ? In that case the P Six is just right. However if I were to upgrade to 3 way in future then the V Eight would be a better option?
I would go with the V8, run all active, it will drive ALL eight of your speakers (165W-XP & PS165), then, when you go 3-way, you simply reassign one of your rear channels to drive the (front) Mids and run your rear PS165's with the Focal crossovers...

OR: the 2-Ohm Focal Utopia Woofers (in the 165W-XP) are really great and have an extended range up into/near the midrange frequencies. If you go with the 3-way Utopia front, I would dump the PS165 sets completely and run a pair of the Utopia 165W-XP woofers in the rear as fill. Since they are 2-ohm, the V8 will send them 120w and since they will match your fronts quality-wise, you will not have any annoying stray highs from the PS165 Tweeters...!

I was running four of them and they sounded great, I only got rid of them because the front woofers I switched to, needed more power and I had to bridge my amp channels together..
 
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