DiyMobileAudio.com Car Stereo Forum banner

1 - 20 of 39 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My setup;

2nd gen Toyota Sequoia

  • stock JBL Navi HU
  • JL LoC-22
  • JL 500/1V2

  • gain set slightly below the 9 o'clock position
  • Infrasonic freq is set to 25Hz
  • Q is set to 1.6
  • Center freq is set to 45Hz
  • Slope is set to 24dB
  • LPF is set to 80Hz

I was looking to add a single 12" to get that tight punch thump bass I can feel at low / moderate volume. While I got bass, it's more boomy than punchy even at low volume. I don't know how else to explain it other than I hear the bass booming in my ears more than I feel the punch in my body if that makes sense. I had a band pass box back in the early 2000s and this is what it reminds me of. Just boomy obnoxious bass for the sake of loudness. From the sound of the boominess you would think you would feel the bass just as hard but you don't. It's very annoying!

I've tried adjusting the amps settings up and down and tried adjusting the LOCs gain but nothing has helped. I even used the front speakers instead of the rears for the LOC but it didn't change a thing. I tried lowering the HUs bass and it helps with the boominess but the overall bass disappears too and you wouldn't even know I had a 12" sub in the back which defeats the purpose of this project!?

The factory HU volume goes up to 62 and starts to clip at 55-56. I set the gain on the LOC with a 0dB 50Hz test tone and I set the amp's gain with a -10dB 50Hz test tone with the HU's volume on 47 because the loudest I usually listen to is around 30-40 depending on the song and if the windows are down. I found clipping and with the gain set how it is now the sub is no where near clipping, I have headroom to spare. If I turn the volume up to 40-45 I can feel the bass but the boominess also go up too and the volume of the words is really too loud to be enjoyable at that level. I'm looking to feel the bass at low to moderate listening levels.

I know this is not a fair comparison but I have a 400w RMS 15" sub in a ported box for my HT and playing the same songs on my phone the bass sounds so perfect, not overly boomy but you can feel the bass in your body. The bass thumps and goes to the next note, it doesn't hang like an echo reverberating. I don't have to turn the volume up overly loud to accomplish that either. It will shake all the windows in my house and everything on the walls and the kitchen cabinets but the bass does not sound overly boomy at all.

I'm at a loss. I've had several setups over the years from a band pass box to a few sealed enclosures (all single 12" and 1 dual 8" setup) and the enclosures were always in the trunk but I never experienced this before. Is it because the enclosure is not in a trunk and the open air from the SUVs cabin is making it reverberate like this? I don't want to start throwing good money after bad money but If I went with a sealed box with JLs specs would that give me the bass I'm looking for or is this boomy bass just the nature of a large SUV interior?
 

·
Blue Collar Audiophile
Joined
·
10,289 Posts
Sounds to me like cabin gain is your issue. I bet you have a big natural peak in the 40hz range caused by the SUV cabin which is where the boomy bass lives. Only fix for this is to cut that frequency range. Just for an experiment see if you can plug the port of that box and see if the boomy bass is as bad. The port tuning of that box might be in a range where it just helps the boomy cabin gain worse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
You mention your LPF is set to 80Hz 24db/octave. Is there a corresponding HPF set on the rest of the system? Typical starting point for SQ builds with 24db slope filters is to separate LPF and HPF with a half octave in between to allow the crossovers to align correctly. So, if the HPF is set to 80Hz, the LPF on the sub should be around 60Hz.

Idk if this is your issue or not, it sounds like the placement and application of your enclosure, port tuning etc may also be contributing to your experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,153 Posts
You mention your LPF is set to 80Hz 24db/octave. Is there a corresponding HPF set on the rest of the system? Typical starting point for SQ builds with 24db slope filters is to separate LPF and HPF with a half octave in between to allow the crossovers to align correctly. So, if the HPF is set to 80Hz, the LPF on the sub should be around 60Hz.

Idk if this is your issue or not, it sounds like the placement and application of your enclosure, port tuning etc may also be contributing to your experience.
Wait, are you saying to align 24db crossovers if a sub is set to 80hz low pass the mind should be at 120hz?
Do you do the same for mids to tweets? Like 2500hz low pass for mid tweet should be at 3750 to align?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Sounds to me like cabin gain is your issue. I bet you have a big natural peak in the 40hz range caused by the SUV cabin which is where the boomy bass lives. Only fix for this is to cut that frequency range. Just for an experiment see if you can plug the port of that box and see if the boomy bass is as bad. The port tuning of that box might be in a range where it just helps the boomy cabin gain worse.
I don't know why I didn't think to plug the port. I just plugged it and you can tell a difference. It still has a little boominess but not as bad as ported. BUT it's still lacking that punch I'm looking for though?

By covering the port, the box is still larger than JLs specs for a sealed enclosure. At this point would going with a smaller sealed enclosure even do me any good? If not I'm tempted to just go back to the stock system.

To put it in perspective.....I was expecting a nice throaty sounding full exhaust system, what I got was a universal muffler swap fart can sounding system. :mad:



You mention your LPF is set to 80Hz 24db/octave. Is there a corresponding HPF set on the rest of the system? Typical starting point for SQ builds with 24db slope filters is to separate LPF and HPF with a half octave in between to allow the crossovers to align correctly. So, if the HPF is set to 80Hz, the LPF on the sub should be around 60Hz.

Idk if this is your issue or not, it sounds like the placement and application of your enclosure, port tuning etc may also be contributing to your experience.
With the stock HU there's only treble / mid / bass adjustments. I tried switching the slope to 12dB and completely off and I didn't notice any difference.

As far as placement, I've tried the box facing the rear window, I've tried the box facing the front window, I've lowered the 3rd row seats and gave the box the entire 3rd row space and I raised the 3rd row seats where it had very little room from the back of the seats to the rear door. Nothing made a noticeable difference to me.

The only way I haven't tried is with the sub facing up but the terminals on the back of the box overhang just a bit and I don't want to bend them and potentially crack the plastic housing from the weight of the box resting on them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,711 Posts
This is why you need to take a measurement of the frequency response. I’m assuming you don’t have a microphone and REW so maybe a $5 phone app RTA will be better than nothing. My guess is the same as Hillbilly in that cabin gain is causing it. I also think your subsonic filter is a little high at 25 Hz if the box tuning frequency is really 30 Hz.

Try Signal Gen and run a low volume tone through the subwoofer while placing your finger gently on the cone and feeling for movement. As you sweep the signal from 25 Hz on up, note the point where the cone moves the least. That will be the true tuning frequency or fb of the box. Knowing this will help you tune the box better like setting the subsonic filter. I wouldn’t be surprised if the true tuning frequency is more like 37 Hz - 40Hz.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
You mention your LPF is set to 80Hz 24db/octave. Is there a corresponding HPF set on the rest of the system? Typical starting point for SQ builds with 24db slope filters is to separate LPF and HPF with a half octave in between to allow the crossovers to align correctly. So, if the HPF is set to 80Hz, the LPF on the sub should be around 60Hz.

Idk if this is your issue or not, it sounds like the placement and application of your enclosure, port tuning etc may also be contributing to your experience.
Wait, are you saying to align 24db crossovers if a sub is set to 80hz low pass the mind should be at 120hz?
Do you do the same for mids to tweets? Like 2500hz low pass for mid tweet should be at 3750 to align?
No, just the sub. It's because everyone boosts the bass in cars and that moves the actual crossover point. For 80Hz sub LPF you would maybe want the midbass crossed at about 106Hz. You take any frequency and divide by 2 and that's 1 octave lower. Then split the difference to get a half octave.

With the stock HU there's only treble / mid / bass adjustments. I tried switching the slope to 12dB and completely off and I didn't notice any difference.
If you dont have a crossover for the rest of the system, that's okay, but it will probably just contribute to boomy bass but not be the major cause. 24db per octave is the right setting for your sub, crossover at 12db per octave at 80Hz or off will just make the sub try to produce frequencies it's not great at or designed to play.

The main problem I think is the head unit. It is probably changing the bass output and roll off to protect the speakers at high volume and even at moderate volume, it's not putting out much in the range you're hoping to boost. So you are getting boom at the frequencies you can hear and the amplifier isnt getting much lower frequencies to amplify. You'd need like a JL fix or something similar to de-equalize the signal you're getting from the head unit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Get the remote gain knob for that amp. I’m using my oem HU and have to adjust the amp for different volumes. There’s no “set it and forget it”.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
626 Posts
U have a stock HU and that dumps signal directly into an LOC. Most stock HUs don't offer a clean signal -- they try to use psycho-acoustical tricks to make the bass sound louder than it really is, becuz that's cheaper than creating a system that can produce "real" bass (ie, good impact and low-freq extension). To the average person, loud=good sound, so these tricks will satisfy most people looking to buy this car.

But when u take that signal and feed it to a system capable of producing real bass, it sounds exactly like what u describe -- all boom and no impact. Not only that, but the level of this effect generally varies with volume. As volume increases, the real bass freqs get a little louder, but the "fake" bass gets much louder. Hence dwhyte91's suggestion to get a remote knob so u can change the bass level whenever u adjust the volume.

This is why products like JL's CleanSweep exist -- to undo the factory processing. Of course, those products can also be expensive. To make the most of what u have, lower the LPF to maybe 60Hz or so. Lower the center freq to maybe 35Hz and lower the Q as well. Hopefully that will boost the lower freqs while taming the higher freqs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,245 Posts
I think your issues have been covered. You have a box that's probably tuned too high, and combined with cabin gain you're getting an extra boost at the frequencies you don't want. You also have the signal from the OEM head unit, which likely has plenty of processing in the bass region, it may even have a HPF cutting the low frequencies so your sub isn't even getting a signal below your massive peak in the frequency response. Some frequency response measurements will help answer the questions, but I think the head unit is a big part of the problem. You can test for a HPF by downloading some test tones in the sub region, and putting a meter on the speaker wires. That won't tell you the whole story, but it could be helpful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
96 Posts
Keep in mind that plugging the port on your enclosure doesn’t represent what a sealed enclosure would sound like in your truck. A sealed box for that sub would be much smaller.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,239 Posts
Keep in mind that plugging the port on your enclosure doesn’t represent what a sealed enclosure would sound like in your truck. A sealed box for that sub would be much smaller.
To go off of this, plugging a port doesnt exactly turn it into a sealed box unless you plug it on the inside of the enclosure where the port starts. There is still a resonant mass that will, well, resonate

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Thanks everyone for the help so far!

I was messing around with it this morning and as crazy as this sounds I got it to where I can feel the bass and it's not overly boomy. I raised the LPF to 3 ticks above 100Hz and I lowered the amps gain completely and lowered the LOC slightly too.

I was playing a song earlier this afternoon at volume 35 and the HU bass to -1 and on certain bass notes it would make my noise feel weird when breathing in and out. LOL I can finally hear AND feel the bass and at low volumes I can hear the bass but it's not boomy at all. I had a bass knob from my old 250/1V2 that's hook up but I don't really need it. Even with the gain all the way down on certain songs I'll had to lower the HU bass another 1 or 2 notches.

How or why would lowering the gain help?



I have $63 in ebucks that I need to use by 11/2. I was thinking of buying a sealed box;
https://www.ebay.com/itm/JL-Audio-12W3v3-2-sealed-subwoofer-box/163756570842?hash=item2620a6f8da:g:zTIAAOSw7k9dFsGK

Would that get the bass even tighter and give it more punch?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
209 Posts
Usually boom is a spike in output, so you stopped that by turning it down. Bringing up the LPF gives you that midbass punch (another decent antidote to boom).

I wouldn't really try sealed personally unless I had a box laying around. Just IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I was messing around with it again and decided to just unhook the 12" and get a bassline from the stock system to go off of. I turned up the volume to 35 with the same song and I felt a lot of the same bass as earlier?? That's because I forgot to unplug my factory sub.

So I unplugged the factory sub and plugged back in the 12W3 and the bass was seriously lacking. I knew turning the gain all the way down was odd. I turned up the gain on the amp to mix with the music and I'm back to the f'ing reverberation again!!


Needless to say this box isn't going to work so I'm going to return the 12W3 and just start all over. Someone mentioned the box I have could be tuned higher but the box I bought was made exactly to JLs specs so how could the box be tuned higher? Maybe I'm looking at the wrong specs. You need a degree to figure this shit out, I just want some nice deep crisp bass!! JL lists the FB @ 30Hz and the F3 @ 36Hz. So to get rid of the boominess should I be looking at lower FB or the F3?

I'm tempted to try a 12" HO JL box. but I'd hate to spend even more money and be in the same situation I am now with boomy bass.
https://www.jlaudio.com/ho112-w6v3-car-audio-h-o-wedge-subwoofer-systems-93315

I don't have the time, patience or skills to build a ported box so I would need to buy a prefabbed. Any ideas on a nice 500w single 12" setup?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
its a cookie cutter space saver box, not the optimal sound quality box. Prefabs are junk in general my good man. Get with a good box builder with audio measurement tools. Consider adding a DSP so you can control the bass response and cut unwanted frequencies would be good along with cleaning up that garbage factory signal thats fking up your bass response. Yes factory signal is garbage and the LOC is just now giving you louder garbage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
listing some songs that absolutely annoy you would help us out in seeing what kind of boominess you are talking about and we can nail down the specific frequency. With a DSP you can apply cuts to those specific frequencies. Otherwise it'll come down to proper enclosure building specific to the acoustics of your vehicle and your sub's parameters, yes you can tune your box specifically mellow out your cabin gain which is causing the huge spike in the boomy frequencies you are having.

not sure if its been talked about before but if you are using any kind of bass boost aka that center frequency at 45hz you mentioned, turn all that sh*t off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
646 Posts
without a DSP or taking the time to build the right ported box, I think you'd be best off with a sealed enclosure. It will require more power and you may not be able to get as loud, but you won't get that reverb/chuffing. You could even go with 2x12s without taking much more space than the single ported box.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
its a cookie cutter space saver box, not the optimal sound quality box. Prefabs are junk in general my good man. Get with a good box builder with audio measurement tools. Consider adding a DSP so you can control the bass response and cut unwanted frequencies would be good along with cleaning up that garbage factory signal thats fking up your bass response. Yes factory signal is garbage and the LOC is just now giving you louder garbage.
I figured as much.

Unfortunately I haven't seen any Sequoia owners on the Toyotas forums that have done this. They either have the non-JBL and switch everything out since it's easier or they have the JBL and try to replace the factory sub and get frustrated because they can't find one that fits with the correct ohm.

Before I bought the JL LoC-22, mostly everyone else was going with the AudioControl LC2i because it had bass correction. Would getting that help me? I doubt it....

If not I found this for Toyotas;
https://tacotunes.com/shop/toyota-tundra-audio-products/crewmax-audio-products/tundra-dash-radio-stereo-installation-kit-stereo-head-unit-dash-installation-kits-crewmax/recurve-ezq-add-amps-to-your-stock-toyota-tundra-stereo-head-unit/

Some give it good review others not so much but they don't even list the Sequoia so I sent a support ticket asking if it'll even work.

To be honest I'm not trying to sink a lot of money into this project, I just wanted a little bit more punch with the factory system. I'm not looking to rattle the next car 4 lanes over or make my windows flex.


listing some songs that absolutely annoy you would help us out in seeing what kind of boominess you are talking about and we can nail down the specific frequency. With a DSP you can apply cuts to those specific frequencies. Otherwise it'll come down to proper enclosure building specific to the acoustics of your vehicle and your sub's parameters, yes you can tune your box specifically mellow out your cabin gain which is causing the huge spike in the boomy frequencies you are having.

not sure if its been talked about before but if you are using any kind of bass boost aka that center frequency at 45hz you mentioned, turn all that sh*t off.
No, I'm not using any bass boost. I have the bass knob connected but it's at 0. I originally wanted to use it to turn the bass down but JL said they had a different knob for that purpose so it's hooked up but not being used.

As far as music, I mainly listen to 80/90/early 2000 hiphop, some older rock, old R&B. Take LL around the way girl, that's overly boomy. I listen to old Outkast, Jazzy Belle is boomy, Myintrotoletuknow is boomy. My daughter and her friends think they're the first to discover AF1s so to tease her and her friends I played Jeezy AF1s and I can't even hear the words over the bass. But when I play those same songs on my HT system they're perfect sounding.


without a DSP or taking the time to build the right ported box, I think you'd be best off with a sealed enclosure. It will require more power and you may not be able to get as loud, but you won't get that reverb/chuffing. You could even go with 2x12s without taking much more space than the single ported box.
I might just try the sealed box before I start dumping more money on DSPs and different setups.
 
1 - 20 of 39 Posts
Top