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Listener of Music
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And really many amps run to hot to touch. But if it's shutting off even once, you should turn that gain down a little. Adding fans is never a bad thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I did turn it down a little bit since the incident, and it hasn't happened again since. But maybe if i get this cooling rack i will have peace of mind while jamming and maybe turn it back up.
 

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And really many amps run to hot to touch. But if it's shutting off even once, you should turn that gain down a little. Adding fans is never a bad thing.
I agree, adding fans is not a bad thing. My concern would be, is this a thermal protect or clipping. OP did not give the amp brand, that would help.

I am not sure I would go through the trouble of adding fans before I knew exacly what was going on. I was worried about adding fans to a JL HD600 that was driving 2 15" subs bridged to 300 watts @ 2 ohms to each sub. The amp got crazy hot but never shut down. I could get the thermal to kick in with the HU Sub output all the way up and the gains all the way up. So after setting the gains back correctly , I never had an issue
 

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Just my 2 cents, but turning the gains up to increase output is not usually the best way to gain output. Adding fans to compensate for this may have you running on the ragged edge of the capabilities of the amp. Could lead to premature failure of the amp.
 

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ditch the switch, use your amp remote wire to power them on/off.
what amp, are we taking about?
had the same issue with my alpine PDX- and adding a cooling fan.
 

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... I have updated the diagram in the original post hopefully for the last time. haha
NO

1. DO NOT GROUND THE SWITCH You don't indicate the switch type - depending on what it is and your wiring you risk building-in a 'switch-to-short-to-ground'. YOU DO NOT WANT THAT FOR CERTAIN.

The sole purpose of the switch is to interrupt the power to the fans; that doesn't involve the ground-side of the circuit at all.

2. Look at the spec for the fans (go to Cooler Master Website); they pull a fraction of an amp each.

18 or even 20ga wire is fine for the wire from the fan fuse to the relay, switch and fans.

You should fuse the fan wire accordingly - 1, 2 or 5A inline fuse will work great depending on how many fans. You don't need and don't want a huge over-capacity (in terms of fuse or wire) for this very low-current fan load circuit.

3. You can use a much lower current rated relay (20A probably lowest commonly available); the lower rated relay will likely have a lower "coil current" demand, placing less stress on you HU Rem Out. Remember, relay current rating is for the load it is switching - you are switching a very low-amp load (sum of the current demand of the fans).

My diagram shows the 'internals' of the relay and switch so you can hopefully understand what is actually going on in the circuit. I'm just trying to show you an electrically safe arrangement for you and your equipment that meets your requirements for 'auto fan operation' with a switch that you can use to 'over-ride' the automatic operation if you want.

Not commenting on the other OT stuff, just sticking with your OP question. ;)



 

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I think you are underpowering those subs.

That amp doesn't seem to be a rockstar of any sort. From the overview I see this statement "Pioneer's Gain Control Caution feature will automatically reduce the amplifier's output until the headunit volume is decreased to acceptable levels".

I can go look in the basement and see what I got laying around, I am sure I have something a little better and cheaper thatn a 150 bucks.....if you want? or keep the gains down and ditch the cooling fans idea.
 

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I also see that there is a bass boost level control......where do you have that set?
 

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NO

1. DO NOT GROUND THE SWITCH You don't indicate the switch type - depending on what it is and your wiring you risk building-in a 'switch-to-short-to-ground'. YOU DO NOT WANT THAT FOR CERTAIN.

The sole purpose of the switch is to interrupt the power to the fans; that doesn't involve the ground-side of the circuit at all.

2. Look at the spec for the fans (go to Cooler Master Website); they pull a fraction of an amp each.

18 or even 20ga wire is fine for the wire from the fan fuse to the relay, switch and fans.

You should fuse the fan wire accordingly - 1, 2 or 5A inline fuse will work great depending on how many fans. You don't need and don't want a huge over-capacity (in terms of fuse or wire) for this very low-current fan load circuit.

3. You can use a much lower current rated relay (20A probably lowest commonly available); the lower rated relay will likely have a lower "coil current" demand, placing less stress on you HU Rem Out. Remember, relay current rating is for the load it is switching - you are switching a very low-amp load (sum of the current demand of the fans).

My diagram shows the 'internals' of the relay and switch so you can hopefully understand what is actually going on in the circuit. I'm just trying to show you a safe arrangement that meets your requirements for 'auto fan operation' with a switch that you can use to 'over-ride' the automatic operation if you want.

Not commenting on the other OT stuff, just sticking with your OP question. ;)



Good stuff right there!..................READ AND HEED!!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
NO

1. DO NOT GROUND THE SWITCH You don't indicate the switch type - depending on what it is and your wiring you risk building-in a 'switch-to-short-to-ground'. YOU DO NOT WANT THAT FOR CERTAIN.

The sole purpose of the switch is to interrupt the power to the fans; that doesn't involve the ground-side of the circuit at all.

2. Look at the spec for the fans (go to Cooler Master Website); they pull a fraction of an amp each.

18 or even 20ga wire is fine for the wire from the fan fuse to the relay, switch and fans.

You should fuse the fan wire accordingly - 1, 2 or 5A inline fuse will work great depending on how many fans. You don't need and don't want a huge over-capacity (in terms of fuse or wire) for this very low-current fan load circuit.

3. You can use a much lower current rated relay (20A probably lowest commonly available); the lower rated relay will likely have a lower "coil current" demand, placing less stress on you HU Rem Out. Remember, relay current rating is for the load it is switching - you are switching a very low-amp load (sum of the current demand of the fans).

My diagram shows the 'internals' of the relay and switch so you can hopefully understand what is actually going on in the circuit. I'm just trying to show you an electrically safe arrangement for you and your equipment that meets your requirements for 'auto fan operation' with a switch that you can use to 'over-ride' the automatic operation if you want.

Not commenting on the other OT stuff, just sticking with your OP question. ;)



Ok, so grounding the switch is big no. Also, sorry I forgot to add that that the switch I planned on using was a SPST type switch. I also will use the 20A relay instead of the 40A as to not put to much strain on the HU. Thanks for setting up a diagram for me! Really helped.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
I think you are underpowering those subs.

That amp doesn't seem to be a rockstar of any sort. From the overview I see this statement "Pioneer's Gain Control Caution feature will automatically reduce the amplifier's output until the headunit volume is decreased to acceptable levels".

I can go look in the basement and see what I got laying around, I am sure I have something a little better and cheaper thatn a 150 bucks.....if you want? or keep the gains down and ditch the cooling fans idea.
I meen, I knew i was going to be under powering them slightly. But would that really cause this problem? To me it seems my amp just doesn't have the cooling capability's to keep itself cool under its max rms. I never heard any distortion or clipping before the amp shut off. Also $150 is the amps retail price, you can find it for around $80-$100.

To the question you asked about the bass boost, I have it set to 6Db.
 

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Ok, so grounding the switch is big no. Also, sorry I forgot to add that that the switch I planned on using was a SPST type switch. .....
Well, I overstepped :blush:

IF you are using an SPST switch AND it has an internal indicator lamp, then it will have 3 connectors and it WILL need a connection to ground for the indicator lamp to operate:



For this you can use any ground conveniently near the switch; no reason whatsoever to run this ground back to near the amps/fans.

Sorry, from your drawing I was afraid you might be using other than an SPST switch since it showed 3 connectors with no mention of an indicator.

No worries, carry on. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Well, I overstepped :blush:

IF you are using an SPST switch AND it has an internal indicator lamp, then it will have 3 connectors and it WILL need a connection to ground for the indicator lamp to operate:



For this you can use any ground conveniently near the switch; no reason whatsoever to run this ground back to near the amps/fans.

Sorry, from your drawing I was afraid you might be using other than an SPST switch since it showed 3 connectors with no mention of an indicator.

No worries, carry on. :)
Ohh ok, I see. Sorry I should have added that it was a SPST switch with an led earlier.
 

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I planned on running a 16g wire alongside the wire I have for the amp from the battery. I don't have a distribution block but the only connections i'm using on the amp is its ground.
In that case be sure to put a fuse on that 16ga very near the battery. Never run any wire directly from the battery without having a fuse very near the battery (certainly in the engine compartment, before the wire goes through any firewall penetration) that is sized appropriate to protect the wire.

Even a small ga wire will carry enough current for a brief time to start a fire if it is shorted. The appropriately sized fuse near the battery is to prevent that tragedy.

And now that you're showing a 5-pin relay in your OP diagram rev x, be sure to insulate blade 87A, it'll be 12VDC hot whenever your HU is off even when the car is off.

I'm with @neuspeedescort, I wouldn't use the amp for distro of ground or power. Using the amp REM IN for a 'jumper connection' is my limit for that sort of thing.

IMHO there's nothing wrong with the concept of an auto-fan relay and even an over-ride switch, but this is looking more and more 'cobbled' as the details come out .... IMHO there's good reasons for 'best practices' like single feeds to amp bays, distro blocks, etc, etc.

Sorry, but I'm out on this one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 · (Edited)
Hey, i'm here for guidance. I want this to be as clean and safe as possible and I don't have a lot of experience doing this sort of thing, that's why i'm here asking. I have no problem creating a dedicated ground for the relay and fans and not jumping off the amps ground, I was under the impression that it would be fine.

Also, I forgot to remove the 87A off the image, i just needed the picture to use with my diagram. I still plan on using a 4-pin relay. I have updated my diagram to reflect that. As of right now this is just a concept as I work out the kinks.

If it is highly recommended to get a power distribution block then i'll get one of those as well.
 

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Like I said earlier. Single ground point (distribution block). You get a good chance of noise when adding stuff like lights. I never thought you were running a separate power wire for the relay. That's kinda silly when you have a big ol' power wire there already. Get some type of distribution. To me disto blocks and insulated wires is a given wether it be heat shrink or tape. I personally only use connectors with 3m heat shrink and adhesive. The adhesive holds better then the crimps and helps keep moisture out.

Think of risk vs reward when doing anything in this hobby. Powering the amp with a 12v acc from a relay could damage the amp = not worth it.

Jumping wires between high power and low power items could start a fire = not worth it

Running fans off a remote wire if fan motors blow and short will damage the hu = not worth it.

Turning up amp to get just a bit louder and over pushing amp = not worth it

Yes many have done these types of things with out damage but I'm not risking my hard earned money repairing/replacing equipment if all I had to do is buy a distribution block and an extra piece of wire.
 

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I meen, I knew i was going to be under powering them slightly. But would that really cause this problem? To me it seems my amp just doesn't have the cooling capability's to keep itself cool under its max rms. I never heard any distortion or clipping before the amp shut off. Also $150 is the amps retail price, you can find it for around $80-$100.

To the question you asked about the bass boost, I have it set to 6Db.
I would be t that you are underpowering those subs more than you think. The rated power that is shown in the specs is based on 14.8 volts. I am sure that your alt doesn't put that voltage out constantly. 225 is a stretch.
 
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