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They absolutely do not do the same thing. One is an auto eq/signal summing device that corrects factory eq, timing, and polarity (will NOT correct or counteract all pass filters). The other is a MOST150 preamp that takes the digital signal on the MOST150 fiber loop and converts it to a format that is usable by us.

Why are you jumping down my throat....... Overall, they do most of same things.... just different technological methods. Both are cleaning up factory EQ settings, Both clean up factory Timing settings, both supplying a clean flat signal to be used for an Amp and/or DSP. The Nav-tv is more advanced and does a better job to get that good clean signal (yeah, by removing AllPass) So, on a Basic level, they both produce almost the same results......at least similiar results that would apply to the OP original situation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Just a quick update.
I went to another shop today. They had no interest in helping with this. Said they only work on equipment they sell. However they did say the problem was most likely signal related, that they should have used a nav-tv interface. I also reached out to the shop that did the work. I’ll share their response in a bit.
 

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Keep us posted... would like to see where this goes.
Lots of knowledge on this site, that can help you along the way.

Out of interest... where in Canada are you?
 

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Why are you jumping down my throat.......
I'm not jumping down your throat. I'm clearing up misinformation so people don't get confused. Sorry, it had to be with what you said and that you mistook my tone, but please, don't be so sensitive. I'm only providing information.

Overall, they do most of same things.... just different technological methods. Both are cleaning up factory EQ settings, Both clean up factory Timing settings, both supplying a clean flat signal to be used for an Amp and/or DSP. The Nav-tv is more advanced and does a better job to get that good clean signal (yeah, by removing AllPass) So, on a Basic level, they both produce almost the same results......at least similiar results that would apply to the OP original situation.
Again, they do not do most of the same things. One, the Nav-TV, doesn't clean up or remove anything since it is a PRE-AMP device. This means it's bypassing, not correcting. Again, it's a digital pre-amp that converts one digital signal into another digital signal (Toslink), or to low-level analog if needed. This is only for specific cars that use a MOST150 system. Think newer Audi, Mercedes, some GM, etc. The JL Fix is a generalized post-amp solution that takes the input signal that you feed it, analyzes it, and does its best to spit out a predictable full-range stereo signal to the user. This will attempt to correct any eq, polarity changes, and delay applied to individual channels, and will sum channels to try to get said full-range stereo signal. In my experience, this is not really a viable solution on most modern cars since they feature all-pass filters and upmixers, which will make the Fix, well, not fix lol. I would only really suggest this on simpler systems that maybe you need to sum signal and correct low end roll-off, such as some Hondas. But even with a lot of simple cars these days, the Fix is not applicable. Pretty much anything with Bose or Harman Kardon is a no-go. Anything Toyota from the past 10 years, no go.. (remember, this will not work with all-pass filters or upmixers, god forbid both lol)
 
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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
So the following is a repl from the original shop that sold me the equipment and did the install. * this is just part of the email as personal info was left out*

  1. Connecting directly to OEM amplifier into a DSP and correcting the factory EQ curve to as close to a flat
  • Would be to use a ZEN module. This module connects to the factory system via the digital optical outputs behind
  • radio. The optical connection is used to connect to the factory external amplifier. Although in this particular vehicle
  • they are not being used. Downfall to this solution Is the overall cost for the ZEN module, as well as the costs for the
  • programmer to turn on the optical outputs. Currently they are in the off state. Once ZEN module is connected it
  • provide 12 channel 4 Volt pre-outs that are 100% flat response. From there connections are made via RCA’s to
  • amplifier inputs. Utilizing all settings in VXi to acquire the perfect overall desired sound.
That being said, I think its well worth the effort to book vehicle in and start the tuning fresh. Reset VXi settings. Use RTA
to take a full measurement using pink noise. This will display the factory EQ, from there we can use the VXi amplifier to
flatten this curve as best as possible. This will give us a good starting platform to make minor adjustments.


The shop I have been talking to about making this right. Came out and told me, that they just finished a similar ”fix” to another vehicle that came out of this shop. not going to name names. I guess you live and learn.
 

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  • they are not being used. Downfall to this solution Is the overall cost for the ZEN module, as well as the costs for the
  • programmer to turn on the optical outputs. Currently they are in the off state. Once ZEN module is connected it

Looks correct.... I'm curious how much they will charge you to 'Turn On" the optical outputs.....It would require at least 3 minutes to complete, I mean at least 3 minutes if you're eating a sandwich and reading FaceBook and programing at the same time..

How to turn on optical outputs >> https://navtv.com/media/products_file/2018/04/05/MOST150_VAG-COM_Programming_Instructions.pdf
 

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Those outputs can be turned on with a Vag-Com (as @tjk_bail mentioned above).
But NAV-TV also sells a kit that includes a ZEN-V unit and an OBD2 programmer (to turn the signal on):


Here's the instructions on how it works:



Either way... it's a 3 minute process... at best.
Here's a video showing a guy doing exactly what you need to do:
 

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Let me call Justin real quick...


He said your good. :)
Although I think Justin is an a$$hole... the reality is that, as of this week; Canada is allowing US resident to cross the border, but the US isn't letting Canadians in yet!

Maybe you need to give Mr. Biden a call...
 

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Although I think Justin is an a$$hole... the reality is that, as of this week; Canada is allowing US resident to cross the border, but the US isn't letting Canadians in yet!

Maybe you need to give Mr. Biden a call...
Just called. Left a message. Secretary said he's sleeping.
 

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Although I think Justin is an a$$hole... the reality is that, as of this week; Canada is allowing US resident to cross the border, but the US isn't letting Canadians in yet!

Maybe you need to give Mr. Biden a call...
Somehow I’m not surprised by this, it’s a shame it hasn’t been opened back up to our friendly neighbors of the north. Biden probably thinks it’s the weekend so he’ll be napping for a while.
 

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So the following is a repl from the original shop that sold me the equipment and did the install. * this is just part of the email as personal info was left out*

  1. Connecting directly to OEM amplifier into a DSP and correcting the factory EQ curve to as close to a flat
  • Would be to use a ZEN module. This module connects to the factory system via the digital optical outputs behind
  • radio. The optical connection is used to connect to the factory external amplifier. Although in this particular vehicle
  • they are not being used. Downfall to this solution Is the overall cost for the ZEN module, as well as the costs for the
  • programmer to turn on the optical outputs. Currently they are in the off state. Once ZEN module is connected it
  • provide 12 channel 4 Volt pre-outs that are 100% flat response. From there connections are made via RCA’s to
  • amplifier inputs. Utilizing all settings in VXi to acquire the perfect overall desired sound.
That being said, I think its well worth the effort to book vehicle in and start the tuning fresh. Reset VXi settings. Use RTA
to take a full measurement using pink noise. This will display the factory EQ, from there we can use the VXi amplifier to
flatten this curve as best as possible. This will give us a good starting platform to make minor adjustments.


The shop I have been talking to about making this right. Came out and told me, that they just finished a similar ”fix” to another vehicle that came out of this shop. not going to name names. I guess you live and learn.
Was this not provided as an option or the correct way to do this to start with by the original shop? As a person that has fiber optic the shops I trusted started the discussion with either use helix or Navtv and then go to a processor or amps. I’m not sure why the tried to go basically a speaker level option out of the gate unless there was a original discussion to try and keep cost low and try it and see?
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Was this not provided as an option or the correct way to do this to start with by the original shop? As a person that has fiber optic the shops I trusted started the discussion with either use helix or Navtv and then go to a processor or amps. I’m not sure why the tried to go basically a speaker level option out of the gate unless there was a original discussion to try and keep cost low and try it and see?
Not sure, why They went this way. I was try to work with in a budget but had some wiggle room.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Just to further update this, and also another question. Working with a different shop now (quite a bit further away). Nav unit has been ordered. They are saying a day to install and tune the car.
New question is; the shop wants to use 2 channels of the amp on the front stage with the passive crossover. And the other 2 channels on the back doors with the factory speakers ( to be upgraded at a latter date). I’m thinking of just powering the front stage active, and leaving the back doors out of it all together. Will I miss not having the rear fill?or is the full active set up a better option.
 

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I think most people would prefer active front stage or bridging to the components. Maybe they're being lazy about running two sets of cables to the door?
 

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I would agree... I think an active front stage would sound better than having rear fill.
(and this is coming from a guy who is a big advocate for rear fill...)

If the shop uses the passive crossovers, then they won't be able to properly time align the front speakers.
Tell them to make the front active, and you will worry about the rear at a later time.
 
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