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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, this is my firs system.. OEM integration.
Vehicle: 2010 Accord
Front: Hertz mlk 165 fully active with Audison Bit10
Rear: None
Sub: single 10w6v2
Amp: HD600/4 for front speakers, Slash 500/1vs for sub
Processor: Audison Bit Ten

Had a shop RTA it, and some basic tuning.. but sound quality seems rather mediocre. any insights appreaciated.. thanks.


By sampow FR tweeter


By sampow FL tweeter


By sampow FR woofer


By sampow FL woofer


By sampow at subwoofer
 

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jtaudioacc
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by just looking at the screen shots, it does look like basic tuning. how's the imaging? looks like left and right are linked, so no separate eq. left and right levels are also all identical. i'm sure there's gotta be some differences there, too.

but just simply going on screen shots, i'd guess you need a new tune.
 

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Do you know how to tune the bit ten? While one can't sit 7,000 miles away and tune for your install and environment, I can help you with some of the basics and you can take it from there.

You're in master mode on the bit ten, where every dsp feature on offer is fully variable. You should be able to dial in some amazing sound. If you're not sure on changing the settings, read the manual before we get into playing with the settings.

Where do you have your drivers mounted? Do you have a disk of the test tones? Download disk 2 so that you can balance L/R response.
 

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Some very good advice already given here. I think to give any more advice you need to give us more info. Where are these speakers installed? Have you sound deadened and sealed everything up (doors)? Are the speakers on axis or off axis and if off-axis by what degree on both sides? I actually had a fairly similar setup in a similar car about a year ago. MLK165 in 2010 Camry but powered by LRx5.1k and a Boston G2 sub. My suggestions here are based on assumptions you have deadened and sealed the doors and the mid is mounted in factory door location and the tweeters are apillar installs off axis (pointed at rear view mirror). The first thing I would do is use Butterworth 24 Db filters on tweets and mids. I think your woofers are crossed too low too (try around 2.5 k or so). Try around 3kHz for the tweeters or so. Your tweeters should be knocked down by quite a margin if they are getting equal power as the mids (don't know if this was taken into account by amp gains). Also, -8 Db on sub might be a bit much (might not too tho depending on positioning and cabin gain). I would look into intensity left and right on the tweeters too. Usually one of them has to come down a db or two. An spl level meter is your friend here. Do you have access to an rta too? In my experience the mids tune is too flat. Both vehicles I have had them in have had to be dropped huge between 250-400 Hz. All of this is assuming alot however. I have played alot with these drivers and I will let you know that the mids can actually play up to 5 kHz quite comfortably too so don't be afraid. They image nice and high and centered too for me. Doing left and right eqing will really center it even further. I hope some of this helps. If you want more - more accurate info on your install will help us immensely.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks everybody for the professional insights. Also thanks JT for the fast reply.. I will definitely make it to the next awesome meet for some help.

Thanks james, I will try those out. May I ask how was gain setting on ur Lrx 5.1? thanks.

In terms of driver locations, they're all in stock positioning


By sampow

Front Doors are deadened


By sampow

Sub is a bandpass ported through rear deck. I believe its 4th order.


By sampow at 2011-10-24
 

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Gain settings on my LRx 5.1k will not really help you much. I moved it from my Camry to my current Rav4 and all of the gains changed on each channel. They actually all got moved down by quite a margin. I am assuming it is because the Rav4 has a much stronger electrical system. That is not surprising at all going from sedan to SUV and from 4 cyl to V6. For what it's worth, the sub channel was about 3/4 to almost full, the midbass was about 3/4 and the tweet was about 1/2. This was all changed in my Bit One.1 as well tho... I think my tweets were dropped by about 6 db there as well. Tweeters really don't require alot of power at all. So doing crude math my mids are getting ~170 w rms, Sub gets ~800 w rms and tweets are probably only seing about 30 w rms or so.
 

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Have you spoken with Doug about this? I just got done watching Amplified 31 and your car is the main vehicle shown.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Gain settings on my LRx 5.1k will not really help you much. I moved it from my Camry to my current Rav4 and all of the gains changed on each channel. They actually all got moved down by quite a margin. I am assuming it is because the Rav4 has a much stronger electrical system. That is not surprising at all going from sedan to SUV and from 4 cyl to V6. For what it's worth, the sub channel was about 3/4 to almost full, the midbass was about 3/4 and the tweet was about 1/2. This was all changed in my Bit One.1 as well tho... I think my tweets were dropped by about 6 db there as well. Tweeters really don't require alot of power at all. So doing crude math my mids are getting ~170 w rms, Sub gets ~800 w rms and tweets are probably only seing about 30 w rms or so.

hi james,

how do u like ur MLK in that setup? I can only imagine how much better mlk sounds with class AB audison.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Have you spoken with Doug about this? I just got done watching Amplified 31 and your car is the main vehicle shown.

Hello,

I will be visiting soundman again this week to finish everything up. But I just want to do my homework.. and try to understand why he did what he did in order to discuss with him. Also I think even after he finishes tuning it, I will probably have to tweak a bit here and there to my personal music preference.. so I hope to learn as much as i can.
 

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hi james,

how do u like ur MLK in that setup? I can only imagine how much better mlk sounds with class AB audison.
To be dead honest, it has been over 6 months now I think that I have had this setup to play with. On some songs it sounds good and on others lacking. The ones lacking it could be record quality. I don't know if I have become spoiled or what but I always seem to think there is something missing. I have had two people on here now say that my amp sounded weak to them and maybe that is the way that I am starting to feel too. I don't know. What I am looking for is tough to put into words. I want to feel when a big bass drum hits. I want to not have to crank it up to almost -10db on most songs when I am at highway speeds to temporarily get lost in the music. I hope that makes sense. Don't get me wrong, it does sound good, great at times but I always think that something is missing. I have alot of plans ahead yet too. I have an ML700 3 incher in my basement awaiting install, a 2nd amp on the way and I have decided to trial binaural mics to do my rtaing. I just feel that I have to eq WAY too much out to get a flat signal and I think I am losing output because of it. I am hoping that adding the ml700 will allow me to eq less and have more clean output and still have a good frequency response. We'll see. A part of me is always thinking I should have went for a 12 incher instead of my ML2500 too. Unsure still on that. It does only produce 80 Hz and down after all and most music is cut recorded below 50 Hz or so... Sorry for the speal but wanted you to know just adding top line speakers won't magically give you what you want overnight.
 

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Oh, and I have deadened the crap out of my ride. Lining the floor in foam and mlv made a noticeable difference on the road. I still need to crank 'er pretty loud to 'get lost' on the highway:cool:
 

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To be dead honest, it has been over 6 months now I think that I have had this setup to play with. On some songs it sounds good and on others lacking. The ones lacking it could be record quality. I don't know if I have become spoiled or what but I always seem to think there is something missing. I have had two people on here now say that my amp sounded weak to them and maybe that is the way that I am starting to feel too. I don't know. What I am looking for is tough to put into words. I want to feel when a big bass drum hits. I want to not have to crank it up to almost -10db on most songs when I am at highway speeds to temporarily get lost in the music. I hope that makes sense. Don't get me wrong, it does sound good, great at times but I always think that something is missing. I have alot of plans ahead yet too. I have an ML700 3 incher in my basement awaiting install, a 2nd amp on the way and I have decided to trial binaural mics to do my rtaing. I just feel that I have to eq WAY too much out to get a flat signal and I think I am losing output because of it. I am hoping that adding the ml700 will allow me to eq less and have more clean output and still have a good frequency response. We'll see. A part of me is always thinking I should have went for a 12 incher instead of my ML2500 too. Unsure still on that. It does only produce 80 Hz and down after all and most music is cut recorded below 50 Hz or so... Sorry for the speal but wanted you to know just adding top line speakers won't magically give you what you want overnight.

Thanks for sharing, James. I can understand how you feel. I have had my system for about 6 months or so now as well.. and ever since then I have been trying what I can and also seeking for professional's help.. I just keep on thinking theres gotta be more to it than what Im hearing. I first had 3sixty.2.. had some bugs and issues with it so now unto the bit 10....attempting to achieve good SQ has been quite frustrating..
 

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In the BitOne screen shots you have your reference listening position as center... you may want to change it to left or right (according to your listening position). Then set your time delays accordingly.
 

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jtaudioacc
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you should be able to get the input signal before the factory amp. that will be your cleanest input. I know I did on the Accord I worked on. I'd think they would have done that, but I'd make sure.

are you trying for a 2 seat setup? cause like someone mentioned, I'd just tune for 1 seat if not. screw the passengers. :)

you should definitely try to make it out to the next meet, some of the best sounding cars in So.Cal available to listen to. :)

but with what you have, you should be able to get a great sounding system, but the tune is #1 on the important list.
 

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As mentioned (I think) I have the big daddy to your processor the BitOne.1 As for the positioning on the software, if I recall correctly, that is just a representation for visual purposes only. It is the numbers that you plug in that matter most. From the numbers, it looks very similar to what I had in my Camry so I would say they have the correct DTA numbers for the driver's seat.

As for my issues, I find myself questioning my components kind of now. I mean, I supposedly have some of the best of the best throughout my setup. This should sound amazing - mind blowing but it doesn't IMO. Good but not mind blowing. As I bought most of my stuff used (mostly from trusted sources) I have questions on how long these components live for and what happens when they get old. I think I will open up a new thread on that so as to not plug this one up too much. I mean for the amount of money these items go for (even used) there should be no issue with power or sq.
 

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Let's start with the sub.

Your sub is cut at 70hz on a 12db slope, that's way too shallow a slope for the sub. Lower the sub cut off to 63 hz and put it on a 24db slope. On the eq for the sub set 20-63hz flat like you have it and then start rolling down on the eq. Cut 80hz by -4db, then 100hz by -8db, 125hz and above by -12db.

On your mids, lower the hpf to 63hz and raise the lpf to 3khz. Again 24db slopes all round.

Was the eq set using an RTA with all drivers playing?:)

There's a reason why the bit ten gives you a separate and independent 31 band eq for each driver. Go back and look at your mid and tweet eq for L/R. They are a mirror image of each other. The RTA has caught the peaks and those frequencies have been flattened. L/R imbalance for each set of drivers (mids/tweets) is not accounted for.

Yes the RTA is a great tool. But run the RTA playing one driver at a time. You would be surprised at different peaks between your L/R mid and L/R tweet. Use your eq correct for the L/R imbalance and flatten out the peaks. The test tones with an spl meter will help here.

Once you have done all this you've reached your starting point, Beyond this you're dialing in tonality and working on things like imaging stage height etc, and this bit is all by ear.

Typically, the 50-125 hz range will be hotter from your near mid. 160hz is much hotter from the right in almost all cars I've set. 315hz is much hotter from the near mid..I would not run 500-800 flat. 800 adds a screechy touch to vocals, I'd cut that a bunch. 500 I'd run flat.

With your mid cut at 1.5khz and tweets at 2.25 there's a hole in between. On a long term basis I have never been able to integrate underlap or overlap on the xovers. I'm not sure of the MLK tweets capability and how low it can play. So I would play safe and cross the mids and tweets around 3khz.

Carrying forward with the L/R theme, 1-1.8khz is a potential hot spot. This range is best cut significantly. Again use an rta to figure out by how much......one driver at a time:)

The 2-4khz range is what I look at as the beaming range. Given the size of your mid bass you can calculate its beaming frequency. At this frequency the further but more on axis mid could be anywhere from 3-6db louder than your near mid. This seems to have a carryover an octave above and below the beaming frequency. I.e. That entire range of frequencies will be hotter from the far side.

6-8khz is sibilance, balance for L/R and cut. With some exceptions the higher frequencies will be hotter from the tweeter that's more on axis.

The reason I'm posting in this thread is that I'm getting my bit ten installed this weekend. I've had some seat time with it and let me assure you, you can do magic with this unit.
 

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Let's start with the sub.

Your sub is cut at 70hz on a 12db slope, that's way too shallow a slope for the sub. Lower the sub cut off to 63 hz and put it on a 24db slope. On the eq for the sub set 20-63hz flat like you have it and then start rolling down on the eq. Cut 80hz by -4db, then 100hz by -8db, 125hz and above by -12db.

On your mids, lower the hpf to 63hz and raise the lpf to 3khz. Again 24db slopes all round.

Was the eq set using an RTA with all drivers playing?:)

There's a reason why the bit ten gives you a separate and independent 31 band eq for each driver. Go back and look at your mid and tweet eq for L/R. They are a mirror image of each other. The RTA has caught the peaks and those frequencies have been flattened. L/R imbalance for each set of drivers (mids/tweets) is not accounted for.

Yes the RTA is a great tool. But run the RTA playing one driver at a time. You would be surprised at different peaks between your L/R mid and L/R tweet. Use your eq correct for the L/R imbalance and flatten out the peaks. The test tones with an spl meter will help here.

Once you have done all this you've reached your starting point, Beyond this you're dialing in tonality and working on things like imaging stage height etc, and this bit is all by ear.

Typically, the 50-125 hz range will be hotter from your near mid. 160hz is much hotter from the right in almost all cars I've set. 315hz is much hotter from the near mid..I would not run 500-800 flat. 800 adds a screechy touch to vocals, I'd cut that a bunch. 500 I'd run flat.

With your mid cut at 1.5khz and tweets at 2.25 there's a hole in between. On a long term basis I have never been able to integrate underlap or overlap on the xovers. I'm not sure of the MLK tweets capability and how low it can play. So I would play safe and cross the mids and tweets around 3khz.

Carrying forward with the L/R theme, 1-1.8khz is a potential hot spot. This range is best cut significantly. Again use an rta to figure out by how much......one driver at a time:)

The 2-4khz range is what I look at as the beaming range. Given the size of your mid bass you can calculate its beaming frequency. At this frequency the further but more on axis mid could be anywhere from 3-6db louder than your near mid. This seems to have a carryover an octave above and below the beaming frequency. I.e. That entire range of frequencies will be hotter from the far side.

6-8khz is sibilance, balance for L/R and cut. With some exceptions the higher frequencies will be hotter from the tweeter that's more on axis.

The reason I'm posting in this thread is that I'm getting my bit ten installed this weekend. I've had some seat time with it and let me assure you, you can do magic with this unit.

Hello sqnut,

Very well appreciated.. I will try RTA all drivers separately and try out the cross points you suggested. Thank a lot for the help.
 

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So jealous of your Bit Ten. I'm sure with some adjustment you can get some great sound!
 

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Use the test tones and the SPL meter to balance for L/R then go back and do the rta with all channels running.
 
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