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both fed the same signal from the JVC source using the same usb,
both feeding the very same 60rms helix speakers
both in the same car with the same interior
both rated 130rms (though helix b2 is actually rated 100rms its underrated and proven to be 138rms whereas the DLS RA20 is underated and 136rms )
both using everything identical


I find it hard to believe you would need to go to the above mentioned levels to make it a fair contest if everything is this identical with as much as a difference we heard anyway.

You need them to be very accurately level matched. The louder amp will usually be perceived as "better".
You also want to be able to switch back and forth instantly to hear differences immediately, not take an hour to swap stuff around and then try to remember and compare to your memory.

Yes, it makes a difference.
 

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Let's not get into a debate about aural memory. The capn has it correct on the best way to switch between them to instantly hear the difference. People who think swapping amps out in a car is a reliable way to test "amp sq" ARE NOT doing it correctly. Your aural memory isn't nearly as good as you think it is.
 

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It's easy for me. The amp that sounds the best is the one I just spent money on.
I just have to make sure to not by junk.
 

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both fed the same signal from the JVC source using the same usb,
both feeding the very same 60rms helix speakers
both in the same car with the same interior
both rated 130rms (though helix b2 is actually rated 100rms its underrated and proven to be 138rms whereas the DLS RA20 is underated and 136rms )
both using everything identical


I find it hard to believe you would need to go to the above mentioned levels to make it a fair contest if everything is this identical with as much as a difference we heard anyway.
Nobody is trying to change your mind. But don't change theirs either. It's been proven again and again... Amps sound different out of the box. But by changing variables, they can sound so similar you'd never pick one out in a double blind test.

I don't care what you think you did. If you can prove your point scientifically that would be ground breaking.
 

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You need them to be very accurately level matched. The louder amp will usually be perceived as "better".
You also want to be able to switch back and forth instantly to hear differences immediately, not take an hour to swap stuff around and then try to remember and compare to your memory.

Yes, it makes a difference.


I see mate,


dont get me wrong I wasnt insisting and see now that I might have had the whole concept all wrong since its obvious your a talented/experienced fella.



in some forums you can find this European (German and Russian I believe) test of amps all being tested for SQ.


I truely wonder on what variables do they do this test, what is it that they actually seek and give scores on?
 

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Cool test setup. What were your thoughts?


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Eyes precede our ears... I see brand (fill in with high end brand) therefore it sounds better. There have been numerous studies done on this!

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk
 

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Eyes precede our ears... I see brand (fill in with high end brand) therefore it sounds better. There have been numerous studies done on this! Harry Houdini was the king of this... Misdirection

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk


Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk
 

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Eyes precede our ears... I see brand (fill in with high end brand) therefore it sounds better. There have been numerous studies done on this!

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk
That's why if I know nothing about the workings of a car I'm about to demo I prefer to go in blind then ask questions later. The first step to becoming unbiased is to admit that you've been guilty of being biased;)I don't know how many times I've listened to someone's car and the amps they're using never came up in conversation and I'm just fine with not knowing what amps they were using. Install and tune are what will make or break the potential of a system. I'm waiting for someone with an extreme install to hide some budget amps to run the speakers and just have wires hooked to their high end amps going to nothing. Would be a great prank and if they won or almost won they could spill the beans about what they did.
 

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I'm waiting for someone with an extreme install to hide some budget amps to run the speakers and just have wires hooked to their high end amps going to nothing. Would be a great prank and if they won or almost won they could spill the beans about what they did.
its been going on for years Chris, speakers that arent playing but you see them, speakers that are playing but you cant see them, fake processors in obvious locations, amps that arent connected....Its nothing new, not even close.
 

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That's why if I know nothing about the workings of a car I'm about to demo I prefer to go in blind then ask questions later. The first step to becoming unbiased is to admit that you've been guilty of being biased;)I don't know how many times I've listened to someone's car and the amps they're using never came up in conversation and I'm just fine with not knowing what amps they were using. Install and tune are what will make or break the potential of a system. I'm waiting for someone with an extreme install to hide some budget amps to run the speakers and just have wires hooked to their high end amps going to nothing. Would be a great prank and if they won or almost won they could spill the beans about what they did.
That's what drew me to exciters! If one really wanted to before a comp they could install a set of dummy conventional speakers and see what happens. The only thing I can't figure out is how to get sub bass (50hz and below) with exciters. I say one guy used a crap load w them, but then for that price at less headaches just run an actual sub!

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its been going on for years Chris, speakers that arent playing but you see them, speakers that are playing but you cant see them, fake processors in obvious locations, amps that arent connected....Its nothing new, not even close.
Or certain sponsored individuals that used amplifier heat sinks from their sponsor yet the internals were amplifier guts from their own company, which was up and coming at the time. I can't mention the individuals or the companies involved, but it was admitted to me over a few cold ones that this indeed happened. :p
 

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Or certain sponsored individuals that used amplifier heat sinks from their sponsor yet the internals were amplifier guts from their own company, which was up and coming at the time. I can't mention the individuals or the companies involved, but it was admitted to me over a few cold ones that this indeed happened. :p

what does someone have to gain by doing this, makes zero sense
 

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Or certain sponsored individuals that used amplifier heat sinks from their sponsor yet the internals were amplifier guts from their own company, which was up and coming at the time. I can't mention the individuals or the companies involved, but it was admitted to me over a few cold ones that this indeed happened. :p


You seem well connected. I'm looking for a couple chassis/heat sinks to house two Brax 2000 class amps. Can you point me in the right direction?


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what does someone have to gain by doing this, makes zero sense
Back in the good old days, there were certain advantages to being sponsored. Enterprising, sponsored, competitors found ways to make money by reselling gear purchased at "team" pricing. ;) That was a source of easy money that was tough to give up.

Then, other sponsored individuals were given gear for free when they won at regional and/or national competitions. Some used the gear, regifted it, or sold it.
 

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You seem well connected. I'm looking for a couple chassis/heat sinks to house two Brax 2000 class amps. Can you point me in the right direction?


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I'm not that well connected these days. The last small manufacturer that I was friends with went out of business when he ran out of extruded aluminum due to the minimum order requirements to replenish his stock. IIRC, the tooling company wanted him to order a minimum of 3,000 pounds of aluminium or they weren't going to tool his heat sinks.

Your problem will be either finding an existing extrusion that will work with the layout of your circuit boards or paying someone to make an extrusion that will work with your circuit boards.
 

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I'm not that well connected these days. The last small manufacturer that I was friends with went out of business when he ran out of extruded aluminum due to the minimum order requirements to replenish his stock. IIRC, the tooling company wanted him to order a minimum of 3,000 pounds of aluminium or they weren't going to tool his heat sinks.



Your problem will be either finding an existing extrusion that will work with the layout of your circuit boards or paying someone to make an extrusion that will work with your circuit boards.

I need these chassis for install purposes as the Brax Platinum is tough to shoehorn in without major mods to my trunk. (Fit great in my last build) Cutting it in half could bring unwanted karma from the SQ Gods and severe depreciation in value.

I found this company and the biggest chassis they make are 16", love the old school look, but making it fit is probably outside of my skillset.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8FBk_ef07so





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Hi everyone: I really enjoyed reading the comments, about DF. We worked at a McIntosh dealer in the 70's and we had a customer that had an Ampzilla 200watt per channel amp. He wanted us to prove it was as good as the Mc amp. So we hooked them both up and the Zilla did check as good at full power until you went over 20khz, then it went up in smoke. We decided to go up at full power on the Mc till it went out of speck .1% it went to 42khz at full power without self destructing. I believe the McIntosh engineers told me that they use a different feedback scheme. I would have a hard time proving that statement. That McIntosh amp was a 2300.
 
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