[Wood503]

Hello All, I am currently working on an audio upgrade for my '22 Honda Ridgeline RTL-E. After installing all of the gear, I am unable to get my gains turned up to a level where my music is loud enough without the noise floor becoming present... creating an audible hissing. This hissing is purely created when turning up and down the gains on the equipment and is not changed with source volume (factory head unit). Additionally, there is no buzzing or engine whining. Just a hissing noise floor.

The following is the gear that I have installed:

• Kicker Key LOC (grabbing signal at the factory amp via driver/passenger door speaker outputs)
• Dayton Audio DSP 408 (2 channels in from Key LOC with 6 channels out)
• JL Audio RD900/5 (6 channels from DSP - 1/2: tweeters, 3/4 woofers, 5/6 Sub
• Kenwood XR1701p (running bi-amped through factory x-overs, utilizing speed wire to run outputs up to factory harness in passenger kick panel)
• Factory ANC module removed

Here is what I have done so far:
I have set up the Kicker Key LOC according to their manual. When setting up the LOC, it requires a "gain matching" track to be played and the input gain is set via that process. During this phase I am only able to turn up the input gain to about 5-10% when the lights begin to flash indicating clipping I assume... This happens when the headunit volume is at 15/25/30 out of 40 it doesn't matter. I have tried to turn the factory headunit up over 30 and it begins to audibly clip with popping and crackles from the tweeters. Therefore, I am left with low-ish input voltage (~8V) that I am then trying to boost to a usable level on the backend. The LOC is a 4:11 converter. With the input side set just under clipping via the gain-match processes, and the output gain on the Kicker LOC at ~10% (The point before the hissing is very audible) I am only getting ~2.5V out of the LOC. This gives me enough to work with on my DSP/amp but again it is a battle between bringing up the gains to get reasonable volume without raising the noise floor too much.

After reprogramming the LOC over and over at different source unit levels and input gain settings, I am still left with a high noise floor when gains are turned up enough for a peak listening volume of I would guess (85-90 dB).

I then checked my ground for high resistance. My amplifier, DSP, and LOC are all grounded at the same point. I wire wheeled the paint down to get bare metal but it still has a resistance of 1 Ohm to the battery. My long test leads measured at 0.3 Ohms and the reading was 1.3 Ohms between the negative battery post and my grounding point at the factory power inverter.

Finally, I started unplugging RCA cables and the hissing subsides when I unplug the LOC from the DSP leading me to believe that the LOC or the factory headunit/amp is the source of the hissing. I have tried adding a PAC SNI-1 signal noise reducer inline between the Key LOC and the DSP 408 and it made zero difference.

I have read quite a few posts on this forum discussing high noise floor issues with the Kicker Key products. I will say that the hissing is worse with the auto EQ enabled, because it is boosting the gnarly high frequency roll-off of the factory system EQ. However, none of these issues on other forum posts discuss the KEYLOC specifically. I have also read about people struggling with noise floor hissing with the JL Fix 82/86 in other Honda amplified systems.

I have considered running line level direct to the DSP 408 to see if the hissing persists but I would like to avoid rewiring my amp rack if possible. I could even go speaker level direct to the RD900/5 but running this system without an ability to adjust EQ is an absolute no-go for me.

Lastly, I should add that this is with the gains on my JL RD900/5 at zero - 1/4. Increasing the gains just brings up the noise floor. I have unplugged everything from amp and increased gains to max on the amp and I get a miniscule amount of noise floor increase to the point of being almost non-audible telling me that it is not the amp producing the hissing. I also had this amp in a previous install with an aftermarket head unit and it was silent.

With all that being said, here are the questions that I am left stumped over after calling both Kicker and Crutchfield tech support:

Is my ground with a resistance of 1 Ohm between the (-) post of the battery and my grounding point too much? If so, where have others found successful grounding points with a resistance of less than 1 Ohm? Others on the Ridgeline forum have utilized this same spot with good results. Would a big 3 upgrade help?

Does the factory amplifier need to be loaded with a resistive level lower than 60 Ohms (this is the load built into the LOC) for it to produce a signal with low noise floor like factory?

Are there any suggestions that you all might have?

Here is a photo of my amp rack and how it is wired to clear up anything I may have missed:

Thank you for your time and help... it is greatly appreciated!

 

[MrHarris]

Big three will make a difference and also 1ohm is too high in my opinion. It would definitely cause less volume overall due to a semi poor ground. I would recheck where your OFC wires connect with its connectors (Faston/quick connects/posi-lock, etc)


The kicker key 200.4 does have a high noise floor, however the keyloc I believe is quite a bit better in terms of background noise and hiss issues.


I don’t know what your factory radio looks for in terms of speaker load but for my case with my Jeep Cherokee that has the 8.4” uconnect navi, the 60ohm load resistor kicker key option does technically work but it is not the most ideal (35-39 ohms would be most ideal). If you turn off the load resistor I know that it makes the devices input impedance go to 20,000 ohms (20k), and if you attach a 5+ (preferably 10watt+) resistor across each of the speaker outputs, connecting to the positive on one side and the negative on the other side of each resistor, it’ll make the impedance seen by the amplifier essentially whatever value resistor you used, and also it will make the impedance seen stay consistent, regardless of the audio frequencies being performed by the load (your speakers)

 

[Sounds_Insane]

I couple more trouble shooting ideas that I don't think you said you tried:

plug the KeyLOC RCAs directly into the amp
power the DSP with the provided 120v wall plug.

I have the same KeyLOC to Dayton DSP and have the same hiss issues in a Toyota Hybrid. Others have used Dayton DSP without issues and others have used Toyota non-JBL headunits without issues and some have installed in Hybrids without issues, so it's something I had wrong.
I'm getting a new DSP, but I'll probably still be stuck with the KeyLOC.

 

[MrHarris]

I always wonder if the keyloc is the real deal or if it’s lowkey a gimmick. $130 for it just seems a good $20-70 cheaper than I would’ve thought it would sell for given it’s claimed capabilities.

 

[Sounds_Insane]

I don’t know what your factory radio looks for in terms of speaker load but for my case with my Jeep Cherokee that has the 8.4” uconnect navi, the 60ohm load resistor kicker key option does technically work but it is not the most ideal (35-39 ohms would be most ideal). If you turn off the load resistor I know that it makes the devices input impedance go to 20,000 ohms (20k), and if you attach a 5+ (preferably 10watt+) resistor across each of the speaker outputs, connecting to the positive on one side and the negative on the other side of each resistor, it’ll make the impedance seen by the amplifier essentially whatever value resistor you used, and also it will make the impedance seen stay consistent, regardless of the audio frequencies being performed by the load (your speakers)

I bought some of these, as well as the ground loop idolator the OP was talking about and they did nothing.

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item-192005-NVX-VSLR20.html

Funny thing is that SonicElectronix emailed me to do a review on those things, they said good or bad they publish honest reviews. I was honest, said it didn't work for me, they never published it. And they can't be returned. Fun times

 

[MrHarris]

I bought some of these, as well as the ground loop idolator the OP was talking about and they did nothing.

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item-192005-NVX-VSLR20.html

Funny thing is that SonicElectronix emailed me to do a review on those things, they said good or bad they publish honest reviews. I was honest, said it didn't work for me, they never published it. And they can't be returned. Fun times

Hey me too. Those nvx load resistors are factory defective (I am convinced). I measured them with my fluke multimeter and from what I can tell they have the resistor layout such as that it’s connected in series or in line instead of like a zobel network aka parallel resistor connection.

They are trash. I had the nvx 39 ohm blue colored ones. I feel like I got robbed of $20 or so. I’m pretty sure they are literally just not even designed correctly to even be functional. All they did was add 39 ohms to the overall impedance when I measured which it isnt supposed to be.

 

[Sounds_Insane]

I always wonder if the keyloc is the real deal or if it’s lowkey a gimmick. $130 for it just seems a good $20-70 cheaper than I would’ve thought it would sell for given it’s claimed capabilities.

It definitely restored my factory signal, however I don't know if it's the source of noise, if I disconnected power to the LOC the noise was still there. I just had to keep the gains way down on all my equipment to have it manageable.

I pulled everything out and moving it to a new car (same car, '23 vs '22), I'm going to try different ground location and run the wires in different areas to see if that will help.

For the OP, if you think the KEY is introducing noise because it's over EQing the system, maybe turn the treble up a notch or two before the setup.

 

[DarkravenR6]

I admit I'm not understanding why there is a DSP and passive cross-overs being used.

 

[JVD240]

It definitely restored my factory signal, however I don't know if it's the source of noise, if I disconnected power to the LOC the noise was still there. I just had to keep the gains way down on all my equipment to have it manageable.

I pulled everything out and moving it to a new car (same car, '23 vs '22), I'm going to try different ground location and run the wires in different areas to see if that will help.

For the OP, if you think the KEY is introducing noise because it's over EQing the system, maybe turn the treble up a notch or two before the setup.

I don't know how you "restore" signal that simply isn't present.

Anytime you boost something you are dragging the noise floor up along with it. There's no free lunch, unfortunately.

The Dayton DSP is also notoriously noisy.

I would start isolating specific units to find the source(s) of noise.

 

[Sounds_Insane]

I admit I'm not understanding why there is a DSP and passive cross-overs being used.

Sometime people use passive to protect tweeters in the case of DSP messup, or "pop" in the system, other times they use it for a component set if they run out of DSP/amp channels. It's not ideal.

 

[Sounds_Insane]

I don't know how you "restore" signal that simply isn't present.

Anytime you boost something you are dragging the noise floor up along with it. There's no free lunch, unfortunately.

The Dayton DSP is also notoriously noisy.

I would start isolating specific units to find the source(s) of noise.

I forget the dB, but the KeyLOC will only boost so much and them lower the rest to match, but then you take that lower signal and boost it back up to X volts out and there is your noise again.

But yeah, it's a bad solution, but without the JBL system there is no other way to get a clean signal out of the heat unit. I've said before, I want to get a DAP and run that to the DSP after I get everything else situated.

 

[DarkravenR6]

Sometime people use passive to protect tweeters in the case of DSP messup, or "pop" in the system, other times they use it for a component set if they run out of DSP/amp channels. It's not ideal.

I'm learning so I have another question? Could there be some kind of conflict between the passive crossover HP/LP filters and the DSP when he is auto EQ'ing?

 

[DarkravenR6]

I would assume that you would just be using TA and running full bandwidth

 

[Sounds_Insane]

I'm learning so I have another question? Could there be some kind of conflict between the passive crossover HP/LP filters and the DSP when he is auto EQ'ing?

I suppose you could have issues. Passive crossovers are usually a 6db slope, so they have little effect on the sound, they are more for safety and to split the signal between two speakers. your DSP's crossover point will probably be about the same spot as the passive crossover. Some will just put the passive on their tweeter.

I'm sure there are issues that arise, and someone can chime in with a better explanation.

 

[Sounds_Insane]

I would assume that you would just be using TA and running full bandwidth

TA would only work if you have a coax or point source speaker because the time is per signal, if the are on the same signal you only get one time... unless someone's DSP has time delay per frequency range, is that a thing?

 

[JVD240]

TA would only work if you have a coax or point source speaker because the time is per signal, if the are on the same signal you only get one time... unless someone's DSP has time delay per frequency range, is that a thing?

You're essentially describing FIR filters.

 

[Sounds_Insane]

You're essentially describing FIR filters.

I hope someone else answers before I give out too much bad information.

 

[Wood503]

I admit I'm not understanding why there is a DSP and passive cross-overs being used.

Thank you for the responses so far. I will begin troubleshooting asap.

I run the passive crossovers as a fail safe. They are bi-amped from the 900/5. This is my first component set while running DSP. Once I feel more comfortable with the tuning, I may remove them.

 

[Selkec]

The Dayton is known for noise also. I had a Dayton and it hissed

 

[Wood503]

Alright, I have done all I can at this point and am at a complete loss.

The first thing I tackled was simplifying the signal path to determine the source of the hiss. After playing with the Dayton DSP I began to notice that the noise floor raised considerably once music was playing and was a big source of my problem. You were all correct on it having a high noise floor. This is something I didn't experience when I was testing it on my desktop setup. After removing the DSP from the signal chain my noise floor was reduced while playing music but the baseline hissing was still the same.

I then re-calibrated the KEYLOC with the treble increased on my factory HU and that seemed to make a slight difference. I got it to a point I was honestly content with but curiosity kills...

I chose to try and mount the KEYLOC up in the dash with the factory amp to have the shortest speaker wire run from the amp to the KEYLOC. I then used a middle of the road RCA cable to run to the back. If anything, this configuration was even worse. There was more electrical noise that was likely coming from interference with all of the factory brain boxes stuffed in the dash.

I had to re-hack my wiring that I had just destroyed and replaced the KEYLOC back in the original location at the back wall of the truck.

Finally, I removed the paint on the factory ground point from the negative terminal terminal of the battery to the body. I did the same from the engine ground to body.

All of this has amounted to absolute frustration and defeat. I have been at this since before Christmas and need a working truck again. I will be taking it into a local shop on the 24th to see what they can do. I will report back if they are able to diagnose the problem and what the missing piece to the puzzle was. Until then, thank you all for your insight!