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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
im thinking about running horns, i really honestly know nothing , but i think it's what I wanna run, im looking to do kick panels for my mids, with a 3 way setup, i have all my speakers, hybrid L8, L4SE, and i was thinking of doing a set of horns to keep it kind of stelth. i was gonna do tweeters up top with L1R2's in a pillars but i think it'll be a much better image with horns in my knee panels and the L4SE's in kicks :mean:

so if you guys could point me at some horns to look at, budget isn't to tight since i already have the R2's and i have a buyer whos lined up, i think ima just use that moneyt o swap out.
 

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i'm dropping my tweeters, i plan on kick panels, and since i wanna run the mids in kicks (3 way setup) i just had the thought maybe I should run horns out of my knee pannels and see how they work, but i dont know much about horns. so could you guys point me in some directions that'd be super helpful ;) i mean the only THE ONLY set of horns ive ever heard were some high end image dynamic horns and i really enjoyed them.
There's a horn subforum here.
 

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Buy these Image Dynamic Mini-horns:

eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

these Selenium HLCDs:

Selenium D2500Ti-Nd-8 1" Titanium Horn Driver 8 Ohm 1-3/8-18

and these adapters:

Selenium ADF25-25 Horn Adapter

If you set them up correctly with proper location, processing (active crossovers and high quality EQing like an Audison BitOne), I promise you will never, EVER go without horns again. After decades of running many, many high-end drivers, I went to this setup and will never go back. I now put horns in everything. ;-)

Also, if by some freak chance, you blow these HLCDs (I assure you, it WON'T be for lack of SPL), you can get these replacement diaphragms for next to nothing:

Selenium RPD220Ti-8 Diaphragm for D220Ti and D2500Ti

This means no more replacing expensive tweeters and you are good to go forever.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
ahhh yeah i found those horn baffles on ebay, as well the 3 types ID seems to have,t heirs a 600$ set, a 350$ set, and another 350$ set with a dif style bezel.

uhm, idk though im looking real high end, i am gonna run a 3sixty.3 for proecessing (once it comes out) currently run an ms-8.

this is my current setup.


i'm swaping out the l6's for L8's, the 10f's for hybrid L4SE's, and the tweeters for horns, is this a practical setup? from what im reading, horns tend to roll off in the upper end, i mean really only in the 15k range, which isnt to bad considering you really only hear up to 10k that really effts how things sound. but is this a good setup for horns? i read somehting abotu the amp on the horns needing a dedicated amp because of the impendence of the horns them selves push the amps kind of hard. so i do have some NX2's laying around i could swap in, but idk. i dont like mixing amps :p but don't really matter. i run 2 pdx 4.150's and one pdx 1.1000. i'll be swaping out that single 12" for dual 15"s in IB.
 

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Running the horns instead of tweeters is ideal because of their extended range (down to 1000hz before the mid takes over). That is the beauty of horns. Regarding your three-way setup, the point of horns is to run them in a two-way setup because this reduces the amount of drivers and subsequent crossover points. Less crossover manipulation equates to less phase shifting, etc. which equates to SIGNIFICANT sound quality improvement.

You really won't notice the higher range (15k) roll-off on these. I have tried adding tweeters in my A-pillars, but I really do not like the way it makes my horns sound (too bright and unnatural). As far as high-end, it does not get any better than Image Dynamics for horn design. These are simply the BEST there is. Run the large bodies if you have the room (down to around 800hz) or run the mini bodies if you don't (down to 1000hz). That being said, the compression drivers are where you spend the money to get high-end sound quality. I run the Seleniums because they perform excellent, but for more money there are even better drivers out there. I personally wouldn't waste more money on pricier drivers because my setup performs fundamentally beyond what can possibly be accomplished in a vehicle environment. What I mean by that is when you consider the myriad of problems in a vehicle like phasing shifts, imaging, stage height, noise, distortion, etc., those issues will have the greatest affect on sound quality and in fact destroy what a good, solid system can do in an anechoic chamber. Basically, get high quality gear (like you already have) and invest the time with an O-scope and RTA. These things will set your system apart from all the rest because those are ALWAYS major issues.
 

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Eric Stevens (the designer of ID horns) recently left the Image Dynamics company and started a new forum with his partner Matt Borgardt. This is an excellent place to ask questions and do some further research into horns.

http://www.backyardinstallers.com/forum/

The forum is down tonight for some reason, but I would imagine it should be back tomorrow. Probably too much traffic for their servers ;-)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
hmmm, well really the biggest selling point to me is the imaging of a horn, plus a horn's physical instilation will save me days of fabrication on pillars. I am still unsure really if this is a good move but its starting to look like it's not done often with a 3 way setup in the tweeter ranges, in fact, they seem to be used as mid ranges more often than tweeters in 3 way setups from what ive read so far.

but these L4SE's can pretty much run tweeterless so running them only to 1200 is quite a waste of talent, BUT if we get a good image and sound out of it..maybe? we'll see I guess :)
 

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Sorry my forums are down for a bit doing some changes... any questions I will be happy to answer or Eric on the subject of horns.
 

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Mr. Matt Borgardt, nice to see you again in this forum.

I need your advise for HPF and LPF if my systems like this below :
1. RAAL 70-10D AM
2. HLCD CDUltra MH.
3. Accuton C90-6-78 / Seas Excel W16NX001 / Micro Precision Z100.
4. Accuton C173-6-191. / Image Dynamics XS69 / Skaaning 7" / Dynaudio Esotar2 E650 /Seas Excel W18EX001.

Which midrange or mid bass better?
How about the cutting frequency for HPF and LPF?

Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Sorry my forums are down for a bit doing some changes... any questions I will be happy to answer or Eric on the subject of horns.
I would love to hear some expert opinion on horns on the high end of a 3 way setup.



Mr. Matt Borgardt, nice to see you again in this forum.

I need your advise for HPF and LPF if my systems like this below :
1. RAAL 70-10D AM
2. HLCD CDUltra MH.
3. Accuton C90-6-78 / Seas Excel W16NX001 / Micro Precision Z100.
4. Accuton C173-6-191. / Image Dynamics XS69 / Skaaning 7" / Dynaudio Esotar2 E650 /Seas Excel W18EX001.

Which midrange or mid bass better?
How about the cutting frequency for HPF and LPF?

Thank you.
no thread jacking, make your own thread or PM him if you have a question, in a normal topic a little off topic is fine but this is not the place.
 

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in all honesty if your gonna run 3 way with horns you won't need any midrange. most that run a 3 waysetup with horns go for a super tweet. you get an effecient mid to keep up with the horns and you won't need anything else. as for the sound stage make sure you have it properly installed as far under and out as possible use to be the rule of thumb.

if u have the ms8 right now matt loves it paired with the horns.
 

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I would love to hear some expert opinion on horns on the high end of a 3 way setup.




no thread jacking, make your own thread or PM him if you have a question, in a normal topic a little off topic is fine but this is not the place.
I apologize before...
Thank you.
 

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im thinking about running horns, i really honestly know nothing , but i think it's what I wanna run, im looking to do kick panels for my mids, with a 3 way setup, i have all my speakers, hybrid L8, L4SE, and i was thinking of doing a set of horns to keep it kind of stelth. i was gonna do tweeters up top with L1R2's in a pillars but i think it'll be a much better image with horns in my knee panels and the L4SE's in kicks :mean:

so if you guys could point me at some horns to look at, budget isn't to tight since i already have the R2's and i have a buyer whos lined up, i think ima just use that moneyt o swap out.
You have to read up about horns a bit more before buying some for your system. The main selling points of horns are: shorter PLD, efficiency and low distorsion.
If you plan to use some HLCD, then you will need to sell your L4SE, your L6 and your L8 - not efficient enough and those drivers will only keep your system under the water.

If you take the ID CD1e v.3 (107dB 1w/1m) and put 1 watt, you'll need around 150-170 watts to your L8 (85.xxdB 1w/1m) in order to be able to play at the same level. 2 watts and you'll need 300-340 watts to your L8. This is not taking power compression into account...

Trust me, I have an X65 (91.xxdB 1w/1m) with 200 watts and I have my gains set almost all the way down on my ID CD1e v.3 and had a hard time getting them to blend correctly (level wise).

Kelvin

Kelvin
 

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As you can see, others are saying the same things that I explained. Basically, one must commit to horns and then redesign the entire system around them in order to do it correctly and effectively. You need the correct amps (ultra-clean, low power for the horns and high power for the mids) and the correct drivers (high quality HLCDs and some highly efficient mids (many people run pro audio drivers here)). Basically, most ditch the high-end, conventional drivers and start from scratch.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
sounds like this plans a flop :(
 

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browse this forum read on what a few of the horn ppl in here are using to team up with the horns they have and look at the power ratio. your gonna want it about 1:3:3
 

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currently I have a pair of ID x65 in the doors and I am giving them about 20-25 watts and the horns are getting about 1-2 watts. the horns are still too loud sometimes, lol.

if you want to do horns, you are really looking at starting over. you wont be able to just slap a pair of horn in and call it good. a pair of really efficient 8" or a pair of 6.5" per door (4 total) then add about 200 watts of power to the doors and 25-50 watts to the horns and you will should be doing pretty well.

also, if you dont have an EQ in the mix, seriously consider it. the freq response of the horns has a couple peaks that will need to be cut to tame them down a bit. (just my opinion on this)
 

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Instead of choosing amps, speakers that match with horn,
we can also match it using digital level adjustment.

So, just find a processor or HU that's capable of playing active and allow level adjustment individually per channel.

I've just setup my friend's ID mini horn last weekend. 3 way configuration.
In the processor i set -6dB for horn, and set the gain a little lower.
The sound is spectacular. Really worth it.
 

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Instead of choosing amps, speakers that match with horn,
we can also match it using digital level adjustment.

So, just find a processor or HU that's capable of playing active and allow level adjustment individually per channel.

I've just setup my friend's ID mini horn last weekend. 3 way configuration.
In the processor i set -6dB for horn, and set the gain a little lower.
The sound is spectacular. Really worth it.
You're still holding your system down that way. Low distorsion, efficiency and dynamics are the reason why horns are used.

Kelvin
 

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Instead of choosing amps, speakers that match with horn,
we can also match it using digital level adjustment.

So, just find a processor or HU that's capable of playing active and allow level adjustment individually per channel.

I've just setup my friend's ID mini horn last weekend. 3 way configuration.
In the processor i set -6dB for horn, and set the gain a little lower.
The sound is spectacular. Really worth it.
While this works great and is a good way to get started. You are not getting the full potential.

If you liked what you heard, then you are in for even more enjoyment when you get the system designed and set up as a whole.

When you get an efficient midbass with the proper power distribution with the horns it brings the dynamics to life and gives you live life like sound.

Eric
 
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