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Looks pretty darn close if you ask me. I sure if you were to measure a few times and average them out, both graphs will look even closer. With that said, I am not sure what the hype is all about. Unless you have EQ, these roll off up top to make them really hard to use (again, without EQ).
 

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Today I found some time to measure both tweeters. The green graph shows the response of the "authentic" tweeter that came with the complete set I purchased recently. The purple graph shows the "fake" one I bought on Ebay some months ago. I measured them being connected to the passive OEM crossover.

Curious to hear the conclusions from the experts so please comment ;-)

I use the Dayton Omnimic to measure my speakers. One thing is, one cannot draw a valid conclusion from just one sample reading. Basic principle of the Scientific method. To make a conclusion valid in this specific case you'd either have to have approx ~20 authentic tweeters and ~20 replicas to establish empirical validity to the data. You think they announced the discovery of the Higgs Boson at CERN after just running one single collision? They had to run stupendous amounts of data for more than a year to collect convincing evidence. We don't have to go to such extremes, but one FR sample of each won't cut it to make valid conclusions.
 

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Looks pretty darn close if you ask me. I sure if you were to measure a few times and average them out, both graphs will look even closer. With that said, I am not sure what the hype is all about. Unless you have EQ, these roll off up top to make them really hard to use (again, without EQ).
I am not so sure about averaging out. Under the exact same conditions, the measurement should be the same. Also regarding the roll-off at the high frequencies: as quite a few house curves have a roll-off included, I'd say both tweeters are pretty much usable, even without a lot of EQ...?
 

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I am not so sure about averaging out. Under the exact same conditions, the measurement should be the same. Also regarding the roll-off at the high frequencies: as quite a few house curves have a roll-off included, I'd say both tweeters are pretty much usable, even without a lot of EQ...?
While I agree with you on a slight roll off and that's how I usually tune my setups, these particular tweeters were removed for that reason: I do not have EQ to bring up the missing upper end in my particular setup. Thanks for spending time and sharing your graphs though!
 

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While I agree with you on a slight roll off and that's how I usually tune my setups, these particular tweeters were removed for that reason: I do not have EQ to bring up the missing upper end in my particular setup. Thanks for spending time and sharing your graphs though!
So you had them in your car and removed them for that reason? I am curious of the measurements of the complete system when I am done with the replacement in the car. And then after the many tuning sessions ahead of me...;-)
 

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I couldn't get the top end sparkle from them that I wanted when aimed from A pillars firing across at each other and slightly in. Even aiming these in your face, that top end sparkle just was not there. It's not a bad tweeter, don't get me wrong, but it just didn't work out for me.
 

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These are ring radiator tweeters and should probably be aimed at or near on-axis to the listener. The fact that these are sold individually without any sort of passive crossover also suggest that they will almost always be in an active environment. Sure, some people will use their amplifier for active crossovers, but most will use some form of DSP. And almost all of those DSPs should provide enough EQ to address any of that top end roll off that might be present.
 

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I use the Dayton Omnimic to measure my speakers. One thing is, one cannot draw a valid conclusion from just one sample reading. Basic principle of the Scientific method. To make a conclusion valid in this specific case you'd either have to have approx ~20 authentic tweeters and ~20 replicas to establish empirical validity to the data. You think they announced the discovery of the Higgs Boson at CERN after just running one single collision? They had to run stupendous amounts of data for more than a year to collect convincing evidence. We don't have to go to such extremes, but one FR sample of each won't cut it to make valid conclusions.
This is car audio. Not quantum physics. Your right about one sample not being enough. But for a situation like this, let's be realistic. The sample size isn't the issue with the comparison. It's the lack of other data

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
 

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Other data that was not disclosed is important of course. But I do disagree with the sample size not being an issue.
 

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What other data are you referring to?
I would guess they referring to the conditions under which the measurements were taken?
 

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Comparing the T/S parameters with a WT3 or equivalent would also tell a lot about any differences between the two "models" of the same tweeter.

(LOL ..."models" is the nicest way I can think of to refer to them.)
 

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One thing that's been bugging me in the Prosound Arena is that I have a hunch that a lot of the gear that's "made in Italy" is actually "made in China."

Here's why:

Italy has nearly no labeling laws. For instance, when I was in Italy, I wanted to buy some Italian shoes for a souvenir. It wasn't possible to figure out what was made in Italy because nothing is labeled.

So my 'hunch' is that a lot of these speakers that say "made in Italy" are actually made in China. The manufacturers are slapping on a label because a product made in Italy has more cred than one made in China. (Literally 75% of the prosound companies are in Italy: B&C, Faital, RCF, 18Sound, etc.)



My suspicions were sorta confirmed, when I saw that this David Louis company, which is in the business of counterfeiting gear, is now advertising "made in Italy." (See the sign at the top right?)

Kinda sucks for the people that actually designed these products.


Here's the real deal, from Void Acoustics

 

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One day, I'll get up the courage to tear into one and see who it really come from. Did that with a CSS plate tweeter a while back and found it was a Wavecor unit inside. I bet these are Vifa / Scan.

What gets me is, why make a "fake" of a real thing, but make it so specific? VERY few SPX-PRO sets were produced compared with other typical products, it wasn't that expensive to start, and most regular customers would find it completely useless without the woofer and crossover...which the crossover is one of the most complex and intriguing pieces of passive electronics ever.

If you were going to make a fake, wouldn't it be of something that would sell well on its own? That's why I think it is a cancelled order or something, where someone just happened to be sitting on a huge ass pallet of "change of plans".
My 'hunch' is that companies just rip off intellectual property shamelessly in China.

Here's a couple of examples:

Nearly twenty years ago, there was a message board feud when Bob Carver released a new speaker with a ribbon tweeter. In the feud, someone from HiVi Acoustics said that Bob had simply made a copy of their ribbon tweeter, and had it manufactured by another company.

Note that this drama can go on for decades, and frequently the clones outlive the original! I think that's what you're seeing with the Alpine tweeter. That ribbon clone is still sold by Parts Express (it's their Dayton ribbon.)

I have a hunch that the same thing is going on with AuraSound, but in that case, they didn't even bother to change the name. For instance, if you look at the spec sheet of AuraSound drivers, they're measured by Ben Tang. Is that the "tang" in TangBand? I'm betting it is. AuraSound drivers were unobtainable from about 2003-2008 and then they magically re-appeared on the market. This is wild speculation on my part, but I'm guessing Ben Tang designed the drivers for AuraSound, then founded TangBand and AuraSound disappeared. Then someone (cough cough Parts Express) decided that the AuraSound drivers were too good to ignore, so they just started making them again. I have original AuraSound drivers from 20 years ago, and AuraSound drivers from Parts Express, and they're a little bit different. Not huge, but they're different.

Monster Cable also used 100% AuraSound, so it's possible that they were involved in getting the drivers built again.

Again, all of this is wild speculation, based solely on crap I read online. I could be completely wrong.

My other hobby is building bicycles, and they have very similar issues. A company like Cervelo will have a new bike built for them in China, and then a bunch of frames will appear on eBay that are identical. Many speculate that the frames come off the SAME assembly line.

 

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If you want a good laugh, you MUST see their website. They claim that they've been making speakers for the last 50 years in Italy. They even photoshopped their name onto the side of a building.

ITALY LOUIS MARTIN PROFESSIONAL AUDIO LIMITED

 

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If you want a good laugh, you MUST see their website. They claim that they've been making speakers for the last 50 years in Italy. They even photoshopped their name onto the side of a building.

ITALY LOUIS MARTIN PROFESSIONAL AUDIO LIMITED

Not defending this company, but are you also saying that their claims of systems in multi-million dollar establishments are also a lie?

Seems like a lot of things could be fact-checked if desired.

It also just seems like you accused them of a bunch of things without proof. If it takes destroying one of these tweeters to find the truth, I'll sacrifice one.


edit:

Are you equating David Louis on eBay with Louis martin Audio on the web?
 

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One thing that's been bugging me in the Prosound Arena is that I have a hunch that a lot of the gear that's "made in Italy" is actually "made in China."

Here's why:

Italy has nearly no labeling laws. For instance, when I was in Italy, I wanted to buy some Italian shoes for a souvenir. It wasn't possible to figure out what was made in Italy because nothing is labeled.

So my 'hunch' is that a lot of these speakers that say "made in Italy" are actually made in China. The manufacturers are slapping on a label because a product made in Italy has more cred than one made in China. (Literally 75% of the prosound companies are in Italy: B&C, Faital, RCF, 18Sound, etc.)


Unless they fly all their employees to China to punch in/out every single day, I doubt it:





There's a few other excellent manufacturers outside of Italy. There's Beyma of Spain, Fane of UK, and Precision Devices also of UK.

Funny you mention those [Italian] names. Right now I'm breaking in some monster 10" midbasses from Eighteen Sound, Ciare, and Faital Pro's in for a home monitor project this summer. No less than 400W RMS, no smaller than 3" coils, min ~4-6mm Xmax, most with flux demodulation rings, good extension out to at least ~2kHz. They will be handling midbass duty from about 80-1,500 Hz:







I have some other 10" midbass monsters coming in later this summer from B&C, more Faital's, and some Beyma's as well. Should make for good testing with Omnimic.
 
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