DiyMobileAudio.com Car Stereo Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,807 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
i mess about with all sorts of x overs and drivers/projects, my latest experiment is building an SQ bass guitar speaker (typical bass guitar rigs just sound to 'middy' / honky for me)

they dont have that awesome 'low lows' i enjoy in my vehicle.

so im gona build one that does :)

im thinking some car audio subwoofers and a pro audio (250wrms) high power x over from parts express or e bay.

i can get 2 or 3 way x overs.

im wondering if there is any point in trying a 2 way with a car subwoofer that is specked to play from 25-250hz.

or will i have to go 3 way and cross the sub at 200?

anyone got a graph of a typical car subwoofer playing thru to about 2000 hz?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
A sub with that recommended frequency response definitely shouldn't play that high. Even if you cross at 200hz that is still very high. More info is needed to better help you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
834 Posts
AE's IB subs will play that high
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,807 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
lots of pro audio drivers can play to 2000, but im only interested in what car subwoofers might do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,985 Posts
Check out Zaph|Audio

The Dayton-RSS210HF-4 is marketed as a sub, the freq response extends to 2khz but THD levels are not best around. No idea how bigger speakers perform, but subs bigger than 10" probably won't do very well around 2k, this is pure conjecture though.

Tried nearfield freq response on my DLS Iri12s in sealed box, they were horrible over 500Hz...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,234 Posts
AE IB15- They play 2,200hz and sound pretty good doing so. I ran them as a true 2-way with only the subs and tweeters. Obviously not ideal but vocals were actually pretty nice all things considered like beaming. They also play 15hz very well. I love these things.

I had some friends over to hear them when I had them setup that way and they could not believe that the vocals were coming mainly from the subs and they sounded pretty normal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
997 Posts
IMO, you're barking up the wrong tree, looking at car audio subs for your application. The issue here is not just frequency extension, but efficiency.

If you want both loud AND low, look at pro audio drivers that can dig a little deeper. Like the B&C 15PS100, which should be able to get you down to around 30 Hz in a B6 alignment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,234 Posts
What's wrong with the AE subs? I thought with the super low Le value they should play midrange pretty efficiently and they have no problem digging deep.

-3db comes in at 40hz and 4,000hz. I know there's more to it than just inductance but wouldn't a fairly efficient (for car audio) sub to begin with along with super low inductance make it pretty efficient in the midrange?

There's no doubt they play midrange just fine and with little power because I've done it but how much more would a pro audio sub have to offer at each end of the usable frequency range?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
997 Posts
What's wrong with the AE subs? I thought with the super low Le value they should play midrange pretty efficiently and they have no problem digging deep.

-3db comes in at 40hz and 4,000hz. I know there's more to it than just inductance but wouldn't a fairly efficient (for car audio) sub to begin with along with super low inductance make it pretty efficient in the midrange?

There's no doubt they play midrange just fine and with little power because I've done it but how much more would a pro audio sub have to offer at each end of the usable frequency range?
The AE IB15 is 87dB/2.83V/1M. The B&C driver I suggested checks in at 95dB/2.83V/1M. It will require less than 1/4th the power of the IB15 for the same output in the "bass guitar" region. And you don't really want to go below 30 Hz with the feed from a bass guitar anyway.

Another possibility that I know works, if you can find one these days, is one of the old-school 1200Gtis (or something with similar parameters) in a 1.75 cu.ft. box vented to 30 Hz with a 3" ID vent. One of my old sub boxes was built like that. I lent it to a bass guitarist for a few days and he was quite happy with it connected to a 400W tube head - he said it had a "round sound". Not huge output though, and bear in mind that was a 93dB/2.83V/1M driver - 6dB more than what the IB15 has to offer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,807 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
B&C 15PS100 15" Woofer 294-673


1000hz, $223.

im not trying to get particularly loud, but the 5th string on my bass is 31hz.

i want it delivered with authority and clarity (my old 12W7 did it very well)

bass amp heads are pretty powerful and reasonably cheap,

im not toooooo worried about efficiency, im more concerned with real low hz clarity/definition.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
What's wrong with the AE subs? I thought with the super low Le value they should play midrange pretty efficiently and they have no problem digging deep.

-3db comes in at 40hz and 4,000hz. I know there's more to it than just inductance but wouldn't a fairly efficient (for car audio) sub to begin with along with super low inductance make it pretty efficient in the midrange?

There's no doubt they play midrange just fine and with little power because I've done it but how much more would a pro audio sub have to offer at each end of the usable frequency range?
I thought of these when I saw the title, but I don't think he'll want an IB bass guitar speaker. Plus the lead time is pretty terrible.

I ordered one in september and just got the tracking number today :D. Long wait, but I'm so excited to hear this legendary sub :cool:.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,234 Posts
The AE IB15 is 87dB/2.83V/1M. The B&C driver I suggested checks in at 95dB/2.83V/1M. It will require less than 1/4th the power of the IB15 for the same output in the "bass guitar" region. And you don't really want to go below 30 Hz with the feed from a bass guitar anyway.

Another possibility that I know works, if you can find one these days, is one of the old-school 1200Gtis (or something with similar parameters) in a 1.75 cu.ft. box vented to 30 Hz with a 3" ID vent. One of my old sub boxes was built like that. I lent it to a bass guitarist for a few days and he was quite happy with it connected to a 400W tube head - he said it had a "round sound". Not huge output though, and bear in mind that was a 93dB/2.83V/1M driver - 6dB more than what the IB15 has to offer.
For some reason I tnought he was talking about running one of the suggested subs in a car. Thats what I get for posting after a long day.

However, the IB15a is [email protected] if I remember right and requires a whole lot less air space than the home version. Better yet, the currently available SBP15 will work in a fairly small box and it will play as high as the IB15. John has other large drivers made just for this use.


Aren't some guitar speakers open baffle?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,749 Posts
To play up to 2k you'll need to look at low inductance drivers-rules out a lot of "high output small box" car subs. The high inductance drivers efftectively have a low pass filter built into them, so will roll off fairly quickly, as pictured below:
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,036 Posts
Your best bet is to run a sub to ~80hz, then a dedicated midbass driver that can play up to where your tweeters kicks in.
The 'midrange' in my reference loudspeakers is a subwoofer. The B&C 15TBX100. It's crossed over at 900hz, which is a stretch.

It takes a lot of technology to get a subwoofer to play this high. You need shorting rings in the motor to extend the high frequency response, and a well engineered and damped cone that won't break up too soon.

To get a sub to play high, you might consider looking for one with low power handling. The bigger the voice coil is, the more power you can handle, but big voice coils have a lot of inductance.

That's why you'll see 'cheap' looking 12s and 15s from the seventies that can do 5khz. It's because the voice coil is small.

The B&C is about $300 last time I looked. There's a member on the forum who has some neodymium 15" subs for sale, and these would be a no-brainer for a project like this.

Note that your polar response is going to suck if you try to pair the fifteen with a tweeter. That's why big prosound two-ways use a horn or waveguide on the tweeter - it matches the polar response of the two.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,913 Posts
If you are buying speakers anyway, why not buy non-CA ones in the first place? I don't see harm in using the sub for the low end and then crossing to a waveguided horn or mid. It's what most other worthwhile bass cabs do.

Keep in mind where that B string is playing. No sense tuning below that... Rather tune your port right there to keep the efficiency.

There are other threads that actually discuss bass cab building at length, but not on here. I will see what I can dig up from home.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top