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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've seen people say that on average for most 6.5's it's "100 Hz for SPL so you don't blow em, 80 Hz for SQ" but it looks like the Silver Flutes could be crossed at 50 or 60 Hz:
300440


Searched thru every SF thread and everyone of course talks about the high xover but never the low
 

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For in a car door, look into the 80-120hz range. Try to look at where the worst nulls are and see if you can avoid them all together and let the sub pick up the slack (assuming you have one). If you can get your sub/midbass blended well then it'll still be good at 120hz. Typically the drivers door is where those issues are.

In an enclosure those SF's will easily play lower than 80hz, but we have a difficult hobby .

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well that's the anechoic response (low end is probably modelled) so if you want to get an idea of where the hpf could be set you could model them in winisd. I typically model them in 3 cu ft "sealed" enclosure to simulate infinite baffle. Then play with filters and power until you hit the excursion limit. While you're at it, compare some other mids to see differences.

There's way way way more to it than this but that would get you started. But that rule of thumb is way to simplistic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Bring the bass up front a little bit, not the wubs but mainly the kick drums are what I’m trying to get more out of

don’t people put 8s in their front because they want more dedicated bass up front ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I should also mention (and I know this would get so much backlash here lol) that this doesn’t necessarily mean I want to cross my sub at that freq. Right now I have my fronts at 80 and my sub at 100, I like to get kick out of both
 

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I should also mention (and I know this would get so much backlash here lol) that this doesn’t necessarily mean I want to cross my sub at that freq. Right now I have my fronts at 80 and my sub at 100, I like to get kick out of both
Crossing your door speakers lower wont give you what your looking for. Seems like what you want is more cone area? Also do you have an eq? Maybe you have a dip somewhere?
 

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Getting bass up front does not mean crossing your midbasses as low as possible. You're setting yourself up for failure. Cross a 6-1/2" at 80Hz and 24dB/octave. You need to do some work but you can get your subs to blend well. Use time alignment to pull bass forward. I just ran through this exercise and it works phenomenally well.
 

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Crossing your door speakers lower wont give you what your looking for. Seems like what you want is more cone area? Also do you have an eq? Maybe you have a dip somewhere?
Yup. Cone area. What most people are trying to do by crossing lower in the doors, really needs to be done with midbass, not at 40 and 50 hz. That "punch" is not at 40-50hz. Then they want to cross the sub too high to get that "punch" in the chest.

Well they found the cure, only they tried to fix it with the sub, because the sub has more cone area.

Get bigger midbass drivers in the doors, problem solved, along with TA and EQ of course.

I absolutely love having a 6x9 in my front doors, they can produce midbass most 6.5's can't touch.
 

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It was crazy the amount of bass the front 6x9 speakers in the factory Jeep/Dodge “premium” sound systems would put out. It also was really bad when you swapped speakers without an amp because the factory’s were 2ohm, so as soon as you changed speakers you lost half the bass in the car


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I should also mention (and I know this would get so much backlash here lol) that this doesn’t necessarily mean I want to cross my sub at that freq. Right now I have my fronts at 80 and my sub at 100, I like to get kick out of both
cross the SF's at 80, and the sub at 60. What you have right now is a mess.
 
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I don't think it's critical to get ALL the bass up front.

I usually try to set it up so that normal music (lol), such as jazz, has the bass up front. It's possible to do this with 100 hz high pass.

The higher the crossover point, the harder it is to blend the sub and satellites. But it can be done. Time alignment or phase control is your friend.

But with modern hi res music, there is a lot of bass and the bass will shift from front to rear. This can be kinda fun anyway. Lets face it, it's not real acoustic music anyway.

The lower you go on the front hi pass, the less power the speakers will handle.

You are going to have trouble getting heavy kick drums up front.
 

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I cross my SF 6.5's 80Hz to 400Hz 24db slope both ends. Sub crossed at 60Hz with an 18db slope. Tweeterless speaker pods with 2.5" on the dash. The SF sounded good. Then they got better with some door treatment and additional tuning. That was the key for me.
 

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If running your midbass in an enclosure you can easily use lower x-over point, especially with ported enclosures which reduce cone movement at tunning freq. When running IB iw would not go lower than 70Hz
 

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Why do you want door speakers playing that low? Thats what subs are for. Whats your sub stage?
If your panels and speakers can handle it, the mid bass and lower frequencies bring that stage forward.

I have my 6.5” mid bass (ML1650.3) at 40-140, using a second order L-R on the low side and a Butterworth on the high side blending into my mids (ML700.3) that do the bulk of the frequencies. Been using that setup for over two years now with zero issues. I tried a Butterworth on the low end, but had to take the filter up to 50Hz to stop the low side from overpowering the mid bass. The subwoofers (two MP250 pro) are on a Butterworth at 40. I have system vertically bi-amped off two six channel McIntosh MCC406m amplifiers. It was important to me to separate left from right as much as possible.

IMO, it’s the enclosure that will make or break your frequency response (of course the speaker itself as well). For me, my mid bass performance is jaw dropping given that it was a “simple” drop in to Toyota Corolla door panels. *”simple” means OEM locations and OEM door card. Heavily treated with dampening and foam is my caveat given the raw ability of the speaker in the door. I learned this almost immediately as the speakers wanted to launch my door panels for holding them back from the moment I put power to them.

Others may have to lean on their subs more, but sometimes the stars align and you have a great speaker AND a great enclosure space to utilize them fully.
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I used hertz Mille ML1600 in the doors of my Saab viggen, they sounded best being crossed over at 63hz. Other options were the standard 80, 100 & 120hz.... 63 sanded quite a bit better.

amps were old Adcom GFA 5475 that was bridged then I tried Phoenix gold elite.4

now that these speakers are in my Jeep wrangler, they sound best at 120hz....

i think there is no one setting fits all, depends on the car and the install
 
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