DiyMobileAudio.com Car Stereo Forum banner
1 - 20 of 39 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
With an MS-8, would I be able to easily build a 3-way front using the dash corner pods for mid range?

I currently have a 2-way passive comps in the doors, and there are unused dash speakers. I really want to lift the soundstage and experiement with dash speakers, but it is beyond my tuning ability.

IOW, with time alignment and EQ, can you use non-ideal speaker locations. Midbass in door, tweet in upper door, mid in dash?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
I certainly have no regrets with the ms8. i've never had or heard anything that would be considered a great sq system, but what i have now is heads and shoulders above anything else i've had a chance to listen to. the ms8 really has changed what i think is even remotely good sounding. for the first time i have a high and centered sound stage. its a great piece for someone like me who wouldn't know where to start with finding someone local to help learn how to tune a system with something that doesn't have auto tune capabilities. the drawback would be i never will get a chance to learn how to properly tune a system myself, not sure that i care anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,298 Posts
What is in your install that MS-8 misses?

I can't envision a single application issue with it that would make it better off out of circuit, unless your system comes with more processing capability than that of the MS-8, which is highly doubtful.
I'm running B&C DE500-8 compression drivers in Image Dynamics horn bodies, pro audio 10s for midbass in my doors, and four Sundown SA-12s in a sealed enclosure behind my 3rd row. I have coax speakers in place for rear fill in both my rear doors and in my D pillars, I normally don't run them but I tried with and without rear fill while the MS-8 was in.

Basically the MS-8 caused a bunch of funky phasing and level issues with my setup that I couldn't overcome by "tricking" it.

From a reply of mine on another forum:
...I even tried putting the headphone mics on backwards thinking maybe they were just built wrong.
I tried putting socks in my horn mouths just for first sweeps, just for second sweeps, and for all of them. I tried gains up, gains down, some up some down down, changing gain settings between sweeps, leaning forward, leaning back, leaning over the center console, holding the mics out in front of me, hanging the mics on the headrest with me out of the truck, windows down, windows up, reran original setup multiple times, even swapped left and right RCAs.

No midbass attack whatsoever.
Horns were basically muted, when I could get them audible they sounded like they were highpassed at 5khz.
Bass was clearly coming from the back.
Midrange sounded like a single 4" driver on top of the instrument cluster, inside a 2 foot long cardboard tube. I could seriously visualize the tube there.
It pretty much made my stereo unlistenable.
Prior to the MS-8 I'd used an Audison Bitone.1, it didn't have these issues for me at all.
After the MS-8 I switched back to a head unit with built-in processing, and I'm golden again. My setup and the MS-8 just didn't get along.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
861 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
It's a quality product and I'm sure it's great for most applications, but even after jumping through hoops to get it dialed in it didn't work out for me. I pulled mine after 2 days and sold it.
I do not use horns, but I coudn't see the difference between them and a more standard tranducer at the listening position. Perhaps the narrow directivity pattern fools the processor with its fewer reflections and end in a mess...

Anyway, the learning curve of the unit is not as steep as a manual processor but 2 days is too little time to get it right.

Amp gains and how much you turn your head at step 2 and 3 makes a big difference.

I never had my car sounding more alike a home system. Correct in most aspects.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,206 Posts
I think the MS-8 is an incredible piece of hardware, and it does things I know can't be done with the other processors I've tried. That having been said, however, it isn't perfect.
I think the MS-8 overprocesses the midbass such that, in the cars I have heard with the MS-8, it kills a lot of life down there (pun intended). In my car, though it did amazing things in the crossover regions and brought about notable tonality improvements, it also took a lot of the impact and the perception of tightness and speed away somehow. The improvements justified keeping it until I find something better, but I miss the dynamicism that I had before it came along. I definitely wish for more control over the end result. With as good as it is, I just think it tries to overdo some things and makes a few decisions that I wouldn't. If the other manual processors had the bass management and phase manipulation capabilities of the MS-8, I'd already be gone.
BTW, I don't use a center channel. I was not (at the time) able to make the modifications necessary to really leverage it. As a result, I run in active stereo with L7 off most of the time.
The MS-8 is awesome for its intended purpose (a great sounding street car). I think that for competition, however, it gets you just shy of the point of no return and then leaves you hanging before a happy ending. :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
861 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I think the MS-8 is an incredible piece of hardware, and it does things I know can't be done with the other processors I've tried. That having been said, however, it isn't perfect.
I think the MS-8 overprocesses the midbass such that, in the cars I have heard with the MS-8, it kills a lot of life down there (pun intended). In my car, though it did amazing things in the crossover regions and brought about notable tonality improvements, it also took a lot of the impact and the perception of tightness and speed away somehow. The improvements justified keeping it until I find something better, but I miss the dynamicism that I had before it came along. I definitely wish for more control over the end result. With as good as it is, I just think it tries to overdo some things and makes a few decisions that I wouldn't. If the other manual processors had the bass management and phase manipulation capabilities of the MS-8, I'd already be gone.
BTW, I don't use a center channel. I was not (at the time) able to make the modifications necessary to really leverage it. As a result, I run in active stereo with L7 off most of the time.
The MS-8 is awesome for its intended purpose (a great sounding street car). I think that for competition, however, it gets you just shy of the point of no return and then leaves you hanging before a happy ending. :(
I have to invest some time "playing" with the processor until I get the desired results. Midbass are not only cleaner but has great impact, even HP at 80/24.
The most impresive thing about this tool is how diferents styles of music sounds right with the SAME settings. I love jazz, it sounds nice with the autotune plus minor EQ edits. When I listen to electronic music at full blast, it sounds very like a PA system...

I think that we are used to touch the EQ, levels or whatsoever that is not easy to get used to set and go as you do in a good home system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,235 Posts
I'm running B&C DE500-8 compression drivers in Image Dynamics horn bodies, pro audio 10s for midbass in my doors, and four Sundown SA-12s in a sealed enclosure behind my 3rd row. I have coax speakers in place for rear fill in both my rear doors and in my D pillars, I normally don't run them but I tried with and without rear fill while the MS-8 was in.

Basically the MS-8 caused a bunch of funky phasing and level issues with my setup that I couldn't overcome by "tricking" it.

From a reply of mine on another forum:


It pretty much made my stereo unlistenable.
Prior to the MS-8 I'd used an Audison Bitone.1, it didn't have these issues for me at all.
After the MS-8 I switched back to a head unit with built-in processing, and I'm golden again. My setup and the MS-8 just didn't get along.
This sounds like the sweeps were too loud during tuning. Especially the no midbass thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,298 Posts
This sounds like the sweeps were too loud during tuning. Especially the no midbass thing.
I tried loud, I tried quiet, I tried where I could barely hear them. I changed levels at the MS-8 control and also with my amp gains. I could tell it was trying, and it definitely made differences, just not the differences I wanted. It's not unreasonable to say that this product is great for most but isn't going to work for 100% of the setups out there, it just simply didn't work for my application. No harm, no foul, I moved on to something that works for me. I would still have no reservations recommending the MS-8 to someone who wants/needs something like it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,298 Posts
the only issue I have with this line of thought, is that others have made horns work well with the MS-8.

so I have to ask, is it a difference in the parts of the system, the particular placement, the install, or is it your expectations of what it should sound like that make the MS-8 not right for your application?

If it's not getting loud enough, I don't think that falls under MS-8 control as an issue, because you can overdrive an MS-8 fed amplifier just as hard as you can when it's fed by something else.
I'm not sure why it's such an issue for you, or why you're on a crusade to find a fix. It's not going to work for every setup. Period. It didn't work for me, and it hasn't worked for at least 3 other people (that I know of) also running horns and big midbass. End of story. I personally don't give a **** if you have an issue with my "line of thought" either. I'm doing just fine without your approval.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,200 Posts
you make it sound like there is a problem when using MS-8 with horns and midbass, and I don't think that has been true in every case of that implementation.
there is a problem and even andy mentioned it. UNLESS someone wants something less dynamic and less "in your face" as you would say, then what's the point. I asked you in the other thread who else you have heard of/from that had positive results with horns. the horn community is pretty up on each other, simply because it's different. I don't know of anyone with horns and the ms8 that likes it. period.

If you like the way that it tames the horns to sound like regular tweeters, then just put in tweeters. trust me, it's way easier, and there is no reason not to.

but for you to say that treetop, or myself, or any of the other horn users did something wrong is pretty naive. i tried the ms8 with ever iteration that i could, and it never sounded right. don't get me wrong, it's not like it sounded bad, but it just didn't sound right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,200 Posts
I like horns, and I'm interested in what this development means to me, because I like clear sounding high-mid regions too, I don't necessarily fall into either camp and if MS-8 is smoothing away the horn honk, but people don't like it, that doesn't mean it's going to be valid for my tastes as well.

Now, I haven't splurged on an MS-8, and it's a topic of interest to me. If my questioning about it causes you or treetop any undue stress, by all means don't respond to my posts.
well, short of trying it out, you won't know. no undue stress for me, but i'm frustrated as I can't adequately describe to you in terms that you would understand what the ms8 does to the horns.

I'm not sure that anyone likes the "honk" or a brash sounding horn. I don't. I LOVE the ease of replication, and hence, the ease of dynamics that these horns bring to the table. the MS8 took ALL of that away. Staging was damn near incredible. But at the loss of dynamics it was too much of a compromise for me.

My system got loud. Loud enough for my wife to need to plug her ears. So that wasn't the problem. Things sounded lifeless and dull, with a hint of tinny-ness. Honestly, even i didn't like listening to it loud as it was fatiguing. I can listen to the same set up now, same volume, and no fatigue and much more life.

Lets try this... What do you like about horns and what would you say a deal breaker would be in the taming of them?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,200 Posts
well, i'm not sure i can help you more than i have already, but i would consider it a necessity to have a center. the other horn cars i heard had a right side bias that they were unable to remove, but in my car the center helped anchor the stage perfectly. I'm not sure about the rears... I liked them but not sure they are necessary. But the center is a must.
 
1 - 20 of 39 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top