I'm running B&C DE500-8 compression drivers in Image Dynamics horn bodies, pro audio 10s for midbass in my doors, and four Sundown SA-12s in a sealed enclosure behind my 3rd row. I have coax speakers in place for rear fill in both my rear doors and in my D pillars, I normally don't run them but I tried with and without rear fill while the MS-8 was in.What is in your install that MS-8 misses?
I can't envision a single application issue with it that would make it better off out of circuit, unless your system comes with more processing capability than that of the MS-8, which is highly doubtful.
It pretty much made my stereo unlistenable....I even tried putting the headphone mics on backwards thinking maybe they were just built wrong.
I tried putting socks in my horn mouths just for first sweeps, just for second sweeps, and for all of them. I tried gains up, gains down, some up some down down, changing gain settings between sweeps, leaning forward, leaning back, leaning over the center console, holding the mics out in front of me, hanging the mics on the headrest with me out of the truck, windows down, windows up, reran original setup multiple times, even swapped left and right RCAs.
No midbass attack whatsoever.
Horns were basically muted, when I could get them audible they sounded like they were highpassed at 5khz.
Bass was clearly coming from the back.
Midrange sounded like a single 4" driver on top of the instrument cluster, inside a 2 foot long cardboard tube. I could seriously visualize the tube there.
I do not use horns, but I coudn't see the difference between them and a more standard tranducer at the listening position. Perhaps the narrow directivity pattern fools the processor with its fewer reflections and end in a mess...It's a quality product and I'm sure it's great for most applications, but even after jumping through hoops to get it dialed in it didn't work out for me. I pulled mine after 2 days and sold it.
I have to invest some time "playing" with the processor until I get the desired results. Midbass are not only cleaner but has great impact, even HP at 80/24.I think the MS-8 is an incredible piece of hardware, and it does things I know can't be done with the other processors I've tried. That having been said, however, it isn't perfect.
I think the MS-8 overprocesses the midbass such that, in the cars I have heard with the MS-8, it kills a lot of life down there (pun intended). In my car, though it did amazing things in the crossover regions and brought about notable tonality improvements, it also took a lot of the impact and the perception of tightness and speed away somehow. The improvements justified keeping it until I find something better, but I miss the dynamicism that I had before it came along. I definitely wish for more control over the end result. With as good as it is, I just think it tries to overdo some things and makes a few decisions that I wouldn't. If the other manual processors had the bass management and phase manipulation capabilities of the MS-8, I'd already be gone.
BTW, I don't use a center channel. I was not (at the time) able to make the modifications necessary to really leverage it. As a result, I run in active stereo with L7 off most of the time.
The MS-8 is awesome for its intended purpose (a great sounding street car). I think that for competition, however, it gets you just shy of the point of no return and then leaves you hanging before a happy ending.
This sounds like the sweeps were too loud during tuning. Especially the no midbass thing.I'm running B&C DE500-8 compression drivers in Image Dynamics horn bodies, pro audio 10s for midbass in my doors, and four Sundown SA-12s in a sealed enclosure behind my 3rd row. I have coax speakers in place for rear fill in both my rear doors and in my D pillars, I normally don't run them but I tried with and without rear fill while the MS-8 was in.
Basically the MS-8 caused a bunch of funky phasing and level issues with my setup that I couldn't overcome by "tricking" it.
From a reply of mine on another forum:
It pretty much made my stereo unlistenable.
Prior to the MS-8 I'd used an Audison Bitone.1, it didn't have these issues for me at all.
After the MS-8 I switched back to a head unit with built-in processing, and I'm golden again. My setup and the MS-8 just didn't get along.
I tried loud, I tried quiet, I tried where I could barely hear them. I changed levels at the MS-8 control and also with my amp gains. I could tell it was trying, and it definitely made differences, just not the differences I wanted. It's not unreasonable to say that this product is great for most but isn't going to work for 100% of the setups out there, it just simply didn't work for my application. No harm, no foul, I moved on to something that works for me. I would still have no reservations recommending the MS-8 to someone who wants/needs something like it.This sounds like the sweeps were too loud during tuning. Especially the no midbass thing.
I'm not sure why it's such an issue for you, or why you're on a crusade to find a fix. It's not going to work for every setup. Period. It didn't work for me, and it hasn't worked for at least 3 other people (that I know of) also running horns and big midbass. End of story. I personally don't give a **** if you have an issue with my "line of thought" either. I'm doing just fine without your approval.the only issue I have with this line of thought, is that others have made horns work well with the MS-8.
so I have to ask, is it a difference in the parts of the system, the particular placement, the install, or is it your expectations of what it should sound like that make the MS-8 not right for your application?
If it's not getting loud enough, I don't think that falls under MS-8 control as an issue, because you can overdrive an MS-8 fed amplifier just as hard as you can when it's fed by something else.
there is a problem and even andy mentioned it. UNLESS someone wants something less dynamic and less "in your face" as you would say, then what's the point. I asked you in the other thread who else you have heard of/from that had positive results with horns. the horn community is pretty up on each other, simply because it's different. I don't know of anyone with horns and the ms8 that likes it. period.you make it sound like there is a problem when using MS-8 with horns and midbass, and I don't think that has been true in every case of that implementation.
well, short of trying it out, you won't know. no undue stress for me, but i'm frustrated as I can't adequately describe to you in terms that you would understand what the ms8 does to the horns.I like horns, and I'm interested in what this development means to me, because I like clear sounding high-mid regions too, I don't necessarily fall into either camp and if MS-8 is smoothing away the horn honk, but people don't like it, that doesn't mean it's going to be valid for my tastes as well.
Now, I haven't splurged on an MS-8, and it's a topic of interest to me. If my questioning about it causes you or treetop any undue stress, by all means don't respond to my posts.