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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, I would like to hear from anyone that has the Hertz ML165 midwoofers or has had a set in their ride previously. I currently have 160 w rms coming from an Audison LRx 5.1k going to them now and I think they need more personally. I know they are rated at 125 w rms from manufacturers but we all know those numbers are only guildlines or not? Anyways, I was wondering what they can truly handle as I am toying with the idea of getting a second amp for strict midbass duty. They will be going ib in the doors of a 2010 Toyota Rav4 and will be playing the midbass roll in a 3 way active front stage. They will likely be crossed something like 60-70 Hz to around 300-400 Hz or so when I get my ML700 into the mix in a couple months (too cold here for fiberglassing right now I am told). I also have a Morel Ultimo 12 in the back being powered by the same amp. I find when I turn it up that your attention is more drawn to it and I think that is because of the power difference (mid-sub). My goal is to always have my bass up front with me at any level.

Ok, with that aside now, what is everyone running/ran and if you could tell me what powered them that would be very helpful too. Right now, I am thinking around 300 w rms but I want everyone's ideas on that.
 

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I have 'run' everywhere from 100rms - 330rms through those drivers.

They performed just fine in every configuration.

However, having owned and listened to them for a few years now with varying power levels, you definitely don't need 300watts to drive them. Just because you have that kind of power capability on an amp channel, does not mean that is what you are delivering to the speaker.

Stick with the manufacturer rating and put your money into the install rather than putting more than double the power recommended.

(also, mine run 63hz-400hz at the moment)
 

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I have had nearly a years experience with them and ran anything from 150rms from a jl 300/2 to 250rms on them from a titanium 1000.2

crossed at 50 and sometimes 40hz 12/slope and 24db/slopes
i have a video if i knew how to upload it of them getting down into the low 40s no problem off 250rms. if you know the driver well enough i dont seem why you couldnt throw 300 at them.. they really shined at 250... tremendous midbass and my personal favourite. i had many people thinking i had a sub in the car when i never even ran a sub at all!
my only complaint is 2 way.. they dont really have much mid range capability at all... the xovers are at 2.2k i believe and the ml28 tweets took over from there... which i didnt have much good to say for the tweeters either.

as a dedicated midbass driver my personal opinion is to run them from 40-50hz - 250-400 depending on your midrange driver. with a bare minimum 150 to them. once they were fully broken in... man.. i could shake all 3 mirrors and i LOVE my midbass... really impressed.

The newer ml1600 on the other hand... dont get nearly as low with no impact.

the only midbass driver id choose over the mlk would be the hybrid L6

just my .02cents
 

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40-50 is not a good idea for them. Doing that will trade off a lot of volume for the extra extension - unless you don't want to listen that loud (or you're not getting much 40-80Hz stuff in your music anyway). Somewhere in the 60-80Hz range like other decent woofers would be better.

100-150WRMS is good. People claim to run more but they are not. They are just using larger amps turned down. They will call it headroom, but it will never get used and be a waste.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I have 'run' everywhere from 100rms - 330rms through those drivers.

They performed just fine in every configuration.

However, having owned and listened to them for a few years now with varying power levels, you definitely don't need 300watts to drive them. Just because you have that kind of power capability on an amp channel, does not mean that is what you are delivering to the speaker.

Stick with the manufacturer rating and put your money into the install rather than putting more than double the power recommended.

(also, mine run 63hz-400hz at the moment)


I already have them installed and have for some time now running off of ~160 w rms from LRx5.1k. They are professionally mounted to 3/4 inch mdf baffles screwed to the doors and separated from the metal and baffles with foam roap. The doors are fully sealed and deadened. I feel they can use more power but thanks for your opinion.

I have had nearly a years experience with them and ran anything from 150rms from a jl 300/2 to 250rms on them from a titanium 1000.2

crossed at 50 and sometimes 40hz 12/slope and 24db/slopes
i have a video if i knew how to upload it of them getting down into the low 40s no problem off 250rms. if you know the driver well enough i dont seem why you couldnt throw 300 at them.. they really shined at 250... tremendous midbass and my personal favourite. i had many people thinking i had a sub in the car when i never even ran a sub at all!
my only complaint is 2 way.. they dont really have much mid range capability at all... the xovers are at 2.2k i believe and the ml28 tweets took over from there... which i didnt have much good to say for the tweeters either.

as a dedicated midbass driver my personal opinion is to run them from 40-50hz - 250-400 depending on your midrange driver. with a bare minimum 150 to them. once they were fully broken in... man.. i could shake all 3 mirrors and i LOVE my midbass... really impressed.

The newer ml1600 on the other hand... dont get nearly as low with no impact.

the only midbass driver id choose over the mlk would be the hybrid L6

just my .02cents
I almost picked up a set Dynaudio MW172 and replaced them today. I just couldn't bring myself to do that being the ML165 seems to be performing adaquately now still. That and I think an 8 in the door might require some modifications that could be challenging. I might still go that route eventually anyways. Also, never heard Dyn and I really want to hear any speakers I buy from now on being shelling out cash.

You are the first I have seen to say bad about the ML1600 over the ML165. Kind of surprised by that actually. I don't know if I would ever need to do a 40-50 Hz crossover on these tho. The Ultimo does those frequencies much better;) I do find they have issues around 60 Hz however. There seems to be dip there and rise up again around 50 Hz and that is crossed at 70 Hz. It's weird. Now that could be my ride or it could be the fs on it being right there at 59 Hz too. If I ever do replace them I will make sure the replacement has a lower fs outside of my planned operating range.

What brand of amp were you pushing 250 w rms to these with anyways?

Lets keep the opinions going and if anyone has more to say on the fs front, I would be very grateful. I think I understand its importance but I could be totally wrong here too.
 

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40-50 is not a good idea for them. Doing that will trade off a lot of volume for the extra extension - unless you don't want to listen that loud (or you're not getting much 40-80Hz stuff in your music anyway). Somewhere in the 60-80Hz range like other decent woofers would be better.

100-150WRMS is good. People claim to run more but they are not. They are just using larger amps turned down. They will call it headroom, but it will never get used and be a waste.
hertz mlk 165 on Vimeo

Wowwww.. i disagree with absolutely everything you just said. so instead of getting into word war and cluttering a thread i think ill just let the video speak for itself. Heres my hertz mlk dropping to 40hz on music off my phoenix gold titanium 1000.2 giving them [email protected] gain is 1/3
watch my video ^ just uploaded for this thread

I would suggest headphones to get more dynamic feel for the driver. and by the way that was just ONE mid playing and one tweeter. this was when i was redoing my set up and really started testing them once they were broken in

once again for people that clearly didnt read what i said... i was going SUBLESS... thats why so low! clearly if you have an ultimo theres no need to go that low. i was doing this because it was my only source of bass and to be honest with you i couldnt have been happier. its clear that some dont have experience with the driver saying to keep it at 150 watts and between 60-80 like "normal drivers" because its far from a normal driver. during the year that i had these they NEVER DISTORTED OR BOTTOMED OUT everrr on 250rms and i listen to my music LOUD. WITH NO SUB..

that was MY application for them. the video does no justice! these things GET LOW,LOUD AND SEXY.
 

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I run the ML 1600 in a 2-way and love them. I have (only) about 90 watt RMS going to them but play from 80 Hz up (to 4K!). They do slam quite good! I have tried a lower crossover but the doors would make to much noise and my mirrors looked like they were going to fall off. I have an upfront sub and that does fine filling in to 80.
I have peaks at 50 Hz and ~ 100 Hz due to cabin size and in a small car it seems pretty easy to get the low end filled in. The Hertz do the mid bass more than fine. I love em.

If I read the comment on the ML 1600 right he was talking about the new model ML 1600. I have the older one but I have read some good things about the newer model on here. I'm not going to swap them out to find out though, I know these work good.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I run the ML 1600 in a 2-way and love them. I have (only) about 90 watt RMS going to them but play from 80 Hz up (to 4K!). They do slam quite good! I have tried a lower crossover but the doors would make to much noise and my mirrors looked like they were going to fall off. I have an upfront sub and that does fine filling in to 80.
I have peaks at 50 Hz and ~ 100 Hz due to cabin size and in a small car it seems pretty easy to get the low end filled in. The Hertz do the mid bass more than fine. I love em.

If I read the comment on the ML 1600 right he was talking about the new model ML 1600. I have the older one but I have read some good things about the newer model on here. I'm not going to swap them out to find out though, I know these work good.
The old ML1600 that you have are a most definite upgrade from the ML165 and I most definitely would not be swapping them out for the newer version. The old1600's are just a sweet driver with the solid midbass but the midrange is supposed to be cleaned up substantially to the 165. I have the ML700 for that purpose - well, whenever I get them in anyways.

Getting the lowend filled in is absolutely no issue here. I do have to turn the Ultimo down a bit to get it to blend however so I feel I am losing output and that could be due to not enough power to ML165? Sounds like 250 w rms is a good number to aim for for this. I am still leaning towards an Arc KS 300.4 bridged to give 350 w rms and I will turn it down for even better sq and I would be set if I do replace with something even more power hungary down the road. Any thoughts on that idea?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well, I guess the little goldmine I found on my local kijjii today is going to answer my question here as to what my ML165s will be getting. I found a pretty much BNIB Audio System Twister F4/380 for what I thought was a deal I could not pass up. When I get the time and off my lazy ass to install it, they will be getting 290 watts rms. Everything I have read about this amp says it makes that power and does it with a high level of sq. I could not believe how small it was when I pulled it from the plastic too. I can't wait to hear what this does for me. Now, just have to wait for it to warm up around here enough to attempt glassing:(
 

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I have the MLK 165's (Rainbow profi phase plugs in back) running on Zapco 1000.4. Most of what I've read in past is that they love power, 150w minimum. Bass is super...fiberglass enclosed. They bass/midbass is in it's own league. The rainbows are hard to compare...not enclosed and not designed for that low range, but compared to the Milles they have mid-range coloration and no low end. I love the tweeters on the milles but the lower mid on this set is hard to elicit.
Read quite a few times when I researched them for install 2 yrs ago...they can sound dull or less impressive at under 150 watts, but the true quality of the speaker emerges at 150 or above.
 

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I recently swapped amps on my MLK165s from a Phoenix Gold MS-275 to an Audison VRX 2.250.2 (Class-A biased :) ).

The improvement from 75 WPC to 160 WPC was nothing short of amazing. I don't know if any more power would necessarily make an improvement, but I think I'm near the edge of diminishing returns.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for sharing your findings everyone. I figure I should share my initial findings after installing my Audio System Twister F4 380 on the weekend. First off, I have done no real tuning on this yet. All I have done is keep everything set as it was with everything powered by the 5.1k only. I also haven't had the new amp scoped and gains properly set yet. The first thing I noticed is the midbass is 80 times stronger now. The midrange is well... Amazing. No other way to describe. I was able to turn the Ultimo right up and have virtually no pull to the back any longer. Oh, and the very first thing I noticed? This thing is freaking LOUD now. Even at 1/2 volume it is too loud! I can't wait to tune this tonight and I will report further later. There are most definitely a few trouble frequencies there and the tweeters are in need of a boost I think.
 

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So you are running the MLK165 midwoofers with 290 watts each now?

I'm running mine like you were before, powered off a 5.1k. It would be interesting to see the difference the extra power gave.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
So you are running the MLK165 midwoofers with 290 watts each now?

I'm running mine like you were before, powered off a 5.1k. It would be interesting to see the difference the extra power gave.
I have them hooked to an amp that can produce 290 w mrs currently. Yes, it is bridged but it has not had the gains set yet. I have them turned down quite a bit actually and again in the Bit One.1 now too. I still notice a pretty massive change in the output from the ml165s. I don't have the three way going yet however so I don't think I will be able to get the full use of this amp until that happens. It is a huge jump from almost 300 watts at 2.5 kHz (where the mids are crossed currently) to around 50 watts where the tweeters are currently coming in at.

I did just finish up the first rta session with it and like I figured I needed to get the high end up to match what the mids were now doing. I came away with lowering the mids output by a db and raising the tweets by the same. Blends much better now even if I lost some of the midbass slam I had at first. I really think once I get the ml700 into the mix powered by the 5.1k's ~160 watts that gap will be bridged very nicely and I will get to bring the midbass back up a bit. We'll see. Now, if it would just warm up enough to do some fiberglassing here! Oh, and if I had some time to do this too...

The other thing I noticed about the new amp was how much more broad the soundstage is. I don't know how to put it other than that. Voices (especially female) are just huge now and have way more depth. After the initial rta I just did, I found I was taking alot less out of the 200-400 range than before to make 'er flat on the rta (computer - arta program w/ ECM8000). A part of me wonders if this amp is actually cleaner than the Audison? It could just be the added power to?
 
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