[totu1111]

hi guys,

my car is w205 with base sound system (4 speakers, 1 subwoofer, no tweeter) which sounded pretty terrible.

I upgraded my speakers, subwoofer and also added speakers (my car did not have any tweeters). Here is my problem.
I used Focal 4' speakers in front with passive crossover. My 4 inch speakers sounds amazing. However, tweeters of Focal distorted. Then i had a chinese made tweeter and it also distorts but less than focal ones. I used alpine tweeter as well and guess what. it also distorts. According to tests i made, these tweeters all distorts at the same frequencies so i think it is all about adjusting the speakers i guess. Also, the only distorts at high volumes (Like after 60% of volume). However, speaker and tweeter gets power from same cable. tweeter takes power from crossover but does not matter.
I added the picture of Match M5DSP application. It is 5 channel so can someone help me to adjust it? (picture is from internet so it is not my adjustment)

 

[Muu]

So I've got a s205 (station wagon version of the w205) and been down a similar road.

Are you sure you're not clipping the input of the amp? Also where do you feel it's distoring, the focals have a big boost at 10db above 10KHz

 

[totu1111]

So I've got a s205 (station wagon version of the w205) and been down a similar road.

Are you sure you're not clipping the input of the amp? Also where do you feel it's distoring, the focals have a big boost at 10db above 10KHz

View attachment 315013

thanks for ur reply.

I dont get what you meant by clipping the input of amp. If you mean wiring, i am using plug and play cable of Audio fischer made for w205. Overall, wiring is no issue.
When it comes to focals, it is not focal issue i suppose. As i said, i have used 3 different tweeters ( Focal, Alpine and chinese made) and they all 3 distort at same point. Distortions mostly occurs in piano songs or sounds made by guitars. There are some songs even at max volume, there is no distortion. That makes me think that i did not filter audio for tweeters. Fun fact is, focal's passive crossover also can not filter it.

For info, Match 5DSP is giving 60w rms per channel and focal is 60w rms as well.

 

[JetBadger]

What kind of files are you playing?

 

[Muu]

There is an old saying of **** in **** out, if you're clipping the input (remember the input of a modern DSP based amp is an analogue to digital converter) then you're never going to un-clip the waveform in software. Looks like the Match has no gain pots, not sure if you can set them in software

 

[SiW80]

Looks like an old version of pc tools. Try the newest version and check the input signal for clipping


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[Zeroblackbeard]

From your AF software screenshot you have the components set to lowpass at 12 db from 2400, so your tweets (which start about there) are heavily attenuated. Also, your left and right channels are not connected to eachother in the software, so front right equalisation, lowpass etc might be different to the left. You also have the front left channel 180 out of phase. which is maybe what you want but without seeing the front right I don't know if that will help.

 

[Muu]

pic is a generic one

 

[SiW80]

To adjust levels (gain) use the level sliders.


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[totu1111]

There is an old saying of ** in ** out, if you're clipping the input (remember the input of a modern DSP based amp is an analogue to digital converter) then you're never going to un-clip the waveform in software. Looks like the Match has no gain pots, not sure if you can set them in software

I have looked google about clipping and I do get what you meant. I am thinking about two things. 1 is make a cable from original audio source to tweeter. The second is, using some kind of voltage adjuster.
should I try it or it won't work?

 

[James_H]

Did you use the Input EQ to look at the incoming signals? They may need to be flattened and level adjusted, which I believe can all be done there.

 

[Granite]

The gain in the software is voltage adjustment.

 

[totu1111]

Did you use the Input EQ to look at the incoming signals? They may need to be flattened and level adjusted, which I believe can all be done there.

well this isjust a generic picture. In my setup, it is nearly all flattened. And my issue is, all speakers, 4 inch ones, sound exceptional. Zero distortions, i mean they sound better than harmon kardon bmw7 series (my friends car). But it is tweeter issue. When i change eq from dsp, it even gets worse

 

[totu1111]

The gain in the software is voltage adjustment.

i know but it also affects the speakers (4’). My speakers sounds amazing with zero distortion. I want to adjust voltage of tweeter and my spearf wire is shared with tweeter so any adjustment made also affects my speakers

 

[SiW80]

If the tweeters are being run from the passive crossover with the 4” mids the issue must be with the passive crossover.

Is it a proper passive crossover or just a cap on the tweeters?

If you can run active as it will make it easier to tune the whole system.

Post some actual pics of the passive crossover and Match PC-tool screens.


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[Muu]

The focal crossover is garbage, it's first order single cap job, with no low pass on the mid.

Have you tried just running the speakers on the factory amp?

 

[sgtm7]

In one of my vehicles, I have 4 midrange speakers, 4 tweeters, and 1 sub. I have a 10 channel DSP(Audio Control DM-810). So everything is run active. You can do the same thing with your 5 channel, but you won't be able to put each speaker on a separate channel like I did. Get rid of the passive crossovers, and run them separately to the DSP. Run two speakers per channel. Two tweeters per channel, and two midrange per channel, and sub by itself. That way you can adjust the frequencies and amplitudes of each type of speaker separately. For safety, you might want to use a capacitor on the wire at the tweeters, in case you accidentally maladjust the frequencies on the DSP. I added the last bit, because I made that mistake on a previous car with a similar setup. Tweeters blow fast when you send low frequencies to them. LOL. I also now always rename the labels in the DSP as Tweeter, Midrange, Sub, to reduce the chance of me screwing it up.

 

[Muu]

Getting the tweeters active in a w205 series Merc is a pretty invasive job for a n00b. It's easier on the base cars as the amp isn't in the boot, but still a lot of work with the doors etc and how the connector works.

This will be something simple, just needs taking to a pro for half a day. Ultimately it's going to need a proper DSP tune anyway.

 

[totu1111]

The focal crossover is garbage, it's first order single cap job, with no low pass on the mid.

Have you tried just running the speakers on the factory amp?

I tried and it was actually worse. What is fun is, Chinese tweeter actually sounds better than Focal ones. i use Chinese ones without crossover (as they have resistors) and focal with crossover.
Running tweeters active is also issue as cable management is literally nightmare In w205. I aclutally used some bass blockers for tweeters and they did not make any difference as well. should i add a high pass filter as well? or a voltage regulators?
btw i do agree that professional is the best, however, where i live, there is literally no professionals! i asked many and they don't ene know what is high pass filter

 

[totu1111]

In one of my vehicles, I have 4 midrange speakers, 4 tweeters, and 1 sub. I have a 10 channel DSP(Audio Control DM-810). So everything is run active. You can do the same thing with your 5 channel, but you won't be able to put each speaker on a separate channel like I did. Get rid of the passive crossovers, and run them separately to the DSP. Run two speakers per channel. Two tweeters per channel, and two midrange per channel, and sub by itself. That way you can adjust the frequencies and amplitudes of each type of speaker separately. For safety, you might want to use a capacitor on the wire at the tweeters, in case you accidentally maladjust the frequencies on the DSP. I added the last bit, because I made that mistake on a previous car with a similar setup. Tweeters blow fast when you send low frequencies to them. LOL. I also now always rename the labels in the DSP as Tweeter, Midrange, Sub, to reduce the chance of me screwing it up.

that is really interesting approach. But using 2 speakers at one channel will make them divide over. so, rms is 60w, each speaker will get 30, am i right?