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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,
The subject says it all. My kid wants to upgrade their speakers for graduation. I planned to drop it off at a shop and let them take care of it. With the virus, nothing can be done at this time.
I am handy with wiring, and a buddy of mine has installed stereo amps/speakers/head units, etc. He asked me to figure out the setup first, then we will work together to install.
I have researched and researched, and I am hoping someone can help with the following possible setup.
This is somewhat of an economical setup, as this is eating into their overall grad gift. Enough about me and why, and so on.
I am looking for an upgrade, but nothing that will blow your socks off.
Jeep Wrangler
Front (Metra Pods)
6.5" - JL Audio C2-650X - 60w (kick panel)
3.5" - JL C2-350X - 25w (dash)
Rear (soundbar overhead with SSV Pods)
6.5" - JL C2-650X - 60w (soundbar)
1.5" - Focal TWU - 15w (soundbar)
I thought about just running 2 sets of components 6.5 / 1 and 6.5 / 1, front and back, but I thought I would try to squeeze in the 3.5 as well.
I take it they don't make a 6.5 / 3.5 component set? I found 3-way sets, but they are a pretty penny and would require a modification to fit the 3.5 inserts. (Focal, Morel)
Sub - Running off a mono amp - 1-12", they are more interested in an overall sound than rattling windows and setting off car alarms.
I am kind of worried about the mid's, as I have plenty of highs, mid-bass, and bass.
85w combined front, 75w combined rear.
Run the front parallel, back parallel in order to run @ 2-ohm over 4 channels. (unless the speakers need to be the same to run parallel)
4-channel @ 2-ohm amp, something like ...
JBL Stage - 70w x 4 @ 2-ohm
Kicker 46CXA360.4T - 90w x 4 @ 2-ohm
JBL GTR-104 - 120w x 4 @ 2-ohm
RockFos - 100w x 4 @ 2-ohm
JL Audio JD400/4 - 100w x 4 @ 2-ohm

I'd like to stay at the 4-channel amp, to be frank, because of price. The jump to a 6-channel amp seems to be substantial. I have only run across 5-channel amps with 1-channel dedicated for a sub.
I will also need the Pac Amp Pro r2. Going to stay with the factory head unit for the time being.

I apologize now if this is dumb, impossible, "why would you want to run that setup", etc ...
I put as much time as possible to learn and try to understand ohms, watts, impedance, but damn it's a lot to digest.
I figured I would find a message board and plea for some help, so here I am.
Be honest, brutally honest, I am not an all in my feelings type of person.
-----Idiot Dad-----
 

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  • Budget?
  • Types of music?
  • Year of Wrangler?
  • I'm not experienced with Jeeps and the acoustics/challenges so I would recommend checking out the build log section for older builds
  • You should also budget for install accessories: power and speaker wires, sound dampening, rca interconnects, etc
  • I also would not plan on running your front and rear speakers parallel. Just to be clear, you are planning to run the 6.5" component set and the 3.5" mid in parallel, per side. You'll send equal power to the (6.5 & tweeter combo) and to the (3.5). More importantly, you'll send the same signal, so now your 3.5 is playing the same frequencies as the 6.5. Focus less on extracting maximum power out of the amps and more on making sure the whole install comes together and the pieces are complimentary. I've run many successful systems with a simple 6.5 in the door and tweeter on the dash. It's almost always the right way to go for 99% of people out there.
My gut would be to simplify your install for a few key reasons:
  • Unless they're really, really into car audio, it almost always goes underappreciated
  • Personally, most people are listening to radio / streaming music anyway. It's not a perfect analogy, but think of it like watching regular DVDs on a 4K HDR TV
  • If you are retaining your stock head unit, you won't have enough processing power to really tweak so many speakers and it might do more harm than good. Things like cross over points, time alignment and phase will be needed to make the whole thing coherent. More is not always better here.
  • Fewer speakers and amps = lower budget or you can spend on nicer parts
Ultimately, I would recommend a nice 2-way component set, a decent sub and a 4 channel amp.
It's been a while since I've bought anything retail so I'll let others tell you how to spend your money, but I'd probably grab the sub and box locally.





Hello,
The subject says it all. My kid wants to upgrade their speakers for graduation. I planned to drop it off at a shop and let them take care of it. With the virus, nothing can be done at this time.
I am handy with wiring, and a buddy of mine has installed stereo amps/speakers/head units, etc. He asked me to figure out the setup first, then we will work together to install.
I have researched and researched, and I am hoping someone can help with the following possible setup.
This is somewhat of an economical setup, as this is eating into their overall grad gift. Enough about me and why, and so on.
I am looking for an upgrade, but nothing that will blow your socks off.
Jeep Wrangler
Front (Metra Pods)
6.5" - JL Audio C2-650X - 60w (kick panel)
3.5" - JL C2-350X - 25w (dash)
Rear (soundbar overhead with SSV Pods)
6.5" - JL C2-650X - 60w (soundbar)
1.5" - Focal TWU - 15w (soundbar)
I thought about just running 2 sets of components 6.5 / 1 and 6.5 / 1, front and back, but I thought I would try to squeeze in the 3.5 as well.
I take it they don't make a 6.5 / 3.5 component set? I found 3-way sets, but they are a pretty penny and would require a modification to fit the 3.5 inserts. (Focal, Morel)
Sub - Running off a mono amp - 1-12", they are more interested in an overall sound than rattling windows and setting off car alarms.
I am kind of worried about the mid's, as I have plenty of highs, mid-bass, and bass.
85w combined front, 75w combined rear.
Run the front parallel, back parallel in order to run @ 2-ohm over 4 channels. (unless the speakers need to be the same to run parallel)
4-channel @ 2-ohm amp, something like ...
JBL Stage - 70w x 4 @ 2-ohm
Kicker 46CXA360.4T - 90w x 4 @ 2-ohm
JBL GTR-104 - 120w x 4 @ 2-ohm
RockFos - 100w x 4 @ 2-ohm
JL Audio JD400/4 - 100w x 4 @ 2-ohm

I'd like to stay at the 4-channel amp, to be frank, because of price. The jump to a 6-channel amp seems to be substantial. I have only run across 5-channel amps with 1-channel dedicated for a sub.
I will also need the Pac Amp Pro r2. Going to stay with the factory head unit for the time being.

I apologize now if this is dumb, impossible, "why would you want to run that setup", etc ...
I put as much time as possible to learn and try to understand ohms, watts, impedance, but damn it's a lot to digest.
I figured I would find a message board and plea for some help, so here I am.
Be honest, brutally honest, I am not an all in my feelings type of person.
-----Idiot Dad-----
 

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Discussion Starter #3
  • Budget? -- Around $1,000 -- have wiggle room
  • Types of music? All over the board, country to rap
  • Year of Wrangler? 2019
I have a long list of wires (both speaker and power), RCA, speaker pods (both front and back). I have it broken down by items.
I did not factor in dynamat (or something similar, but I can add that to the list)

Speakers alone, I am at 650'ish. Amp, around 350, and I am at the 1k mark.
Sub/Amp is a gift from a family member. That is checked off the list.

So, maybe I should stick to 2-6.5" component set.
Something like the JL C2-600's or Morel Maximus 602?
 

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That's a strong budget and leaves a lot of flexibility.

I haven't run rear speakers in a long time (10+ years).
The popular argument is: when you go to a concert, does the sound come from the stage in front of you, or behind you?
If you watch TV, do your rear surround speakers play the same sounds as your bigger front towers?

I really think you are better off getting 1 good set of components using say 1.5X your speaker budget than 2 lesser sets of components. You can always add the rears after if your kid still finds it lacking, but I doubt it. I get the urge to "do it right the first time, in one go" but I don't think that's the case here. I'd argue you're not missing out on anything this way. If anything, your installation will be easier and results better with a simpler process.

The only valid arguments against rearfill:
  • Often have people in the back (I use factory speakers, faded to the front, never had complaints)
  • Really like an "immersive" sound. This is really the only reason I'm not pushing harder for what I think is the better approach. If your kid wants to be surrounded by 4 speakers, I'm not going to argue against their preferences. But if you're doing 4 speakers because it's what came from the factory and you think it's the right way to do thing, I think my approach will give you better results.
 

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Ditch the rears and spend the money saved on more amp power, either a 4ch plus mono amp or a 5ch amp.


I prefer the 4ch plus sub amp method, I went with audiocontrol D-6.1200 and LC 1.1500, component set from Herts up from and stock rears, subs under my seats in my JKU.

i don’t feel type of music matters with speakers. Crappy speakers or improperly installed good/great speakers will sound like crap with any type of music. Good speakers and a good install will sound great with anything.... jeeps are funky not ideal vehicles. Midbass is really lacking in my JKU, nature of the beast I guess.... midbass pods are to small to develop good midbass/sound.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
That's a strong budget and leaves a lot of flexibility.

I haven't run rear speakers in a long time (10+ years).
The popular argument is: when you go to a concert, does the sound come from the stage in front of you, or behind you?
If you watch TV, do your rear surround speakers play the same sounds as your bigger front towers?

I really think you are better off getting 1 good set of components using say 1.5X your speaker budget than 2 lesser sets of components. You can always add the rears after if your kid still finds it lacking, but I doubt it. I get the urge to "do it right the first time, in one go" but I don't think that's the case here. I'd argue you're not missing out on anything this way. If anything, your installation will be easier and results better with a simpler process.

The only valid arguments against rearfill:
  • Often have people in the back (I use factory speakers, faded to the front, never had complaints)
  • Really like an "immersive" sound. This is really the only reason I'm not pushing harder for what I think is the better approach. If your kid wants to be surrounded by 4 speakers, I'm not going to argue against their preferences. But if you're doing 4 speakers because it's what came from the factory and you think it's the right way to do thing, I think my approach will give you better results.
I appreciate the info. I found a JL within the build portion of the boards. He is way past what I am looking to do. He has built custom tweeter pods, amongst many other things.
I figured I'd 'upgrade' all speaker locations. Riding with the top off, music tends to be nonexistent. I grew up with crappy door speakers and terrible 6x9's in the back.
Car full of kids? Yep .. looks like a damn clown car at times.
Good point when comparing it to a concert. We have set the standards much higher with in-home audio, surround sound, etc.
I will keep looking around the boards and see if I can find comparable Jeep builds. I typically run into a Jeep owner that is dropping 3k+ with 2-3 12's, dual amps and are only looking to rattle pictures off their wall. :ROFLMAO:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ditch the rears and spend the money saved on more amp power, either a 4ch plus mono amp or a 5ch amp.


I prefer the 4ch plus sub amp method, I went with audiocontrol D-6.1200 and LC 1.1500, component set from Herts up from and stock rears, subs under my seats in my JKU.

i don’t feel type of music matters with speakers. Crappy speakers or improperly installed good/great speakers will sound like crap with any type of music. Good speakers and a good install will sound great with anything.... jeeps are funky not ideal vehicles. Midbass is really lacking in my JKU, nature of the beast I guess.... midbass pods are too small to develop good midbass/sound.
I really appreciate the feedback.
Let me ask a question, even though the channels are 125w x 6 at 4ohms, speakers that only have a rating of 80w will be ok on this amp? I thought the rule of thumb was to be as close to RMS as possible. Thinking more about this, I believe I read somewhere you can go as high as 50% more than RMS and still be safe. (100w RMS, amp up to 150w per channel) The trouble you run into is when you underpower speakers as they will want to draw more power than the amp can handle, causing it to overheat?

Just to appease my thought process ... What I mentioned above, would wiring the speakers in parallel work? 8 4-ohm speakers, 4-front, 4-rear, wired in parallel, and a 4-channel 2-ohm amp, as long as power is acceptable. I am sure there is some caveat that I am missing to have the ability to do this.
I am leaning towards fronts only on a stronger 4-channel based on your answer to my question above.
Metra has a 6.5" pod for the JL knee speaker, and SSV has a 6.5 pod for the roll bar. Jeep using 3.5 and 4" speakers seemed a bit odd to me, but then again, I don't know anything. Stock isn't terrible until you take the top off. I don't want to spend 1300 on their Alpine upgrade. Too many mixed reviews. For what I want, it's probably not a bad idea, I prefer to have something a little more custom.

I appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me in a way I understand. I have spent the better part of a week attempting to further understand how this works. I have filled an entire legal pad with information, ohms, resistance, wiring, speakers, and amp information. Along with watching hours of YouTube videos. You guys that know this stuff, I applaud you.

Thank you again,
 

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I tell this to not only beginners, but this philosphy applies to experienced enthusiasts with a strong understanding of acoustics as well, that advice is keep it as simple as possible.

Running front components with a random midrange stuffed in is a bad idea, it will not only complicate things, but it will sound worse than just using a decent component set up front. Someone already mentioned if you wire it with the front speakers you'll not only be splitting power inappropriately, but you'll be sending a fullrange signal to the mid, it's a bad idea regardless.

Since the Jeep is a different animal than most cars, the rear speakers in the sound bar don't help make it sound better while driving, they are more for tailgating. If you can avoid having them at all, that would be best.

Really, the best sound quality you'll get for your budget is to buy a decent 4 channel amp, bridge channels 3 and 4 to a sub, and run a pair of good components up front on channels 1 and 2.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I tell this to not only beginners, but this philosphy applies to experienced enthusiasts with a strong understanding of acoustics as well, that advice is keep it as simple as possible.

Running front components with a random midrange stuffed in is a bad idea, it will not only complicate things, but it will sound worse than just using a decent component set up front. Someone already mentioned if you wire it with the front speakers you'll not only be splitting power inappropriately, but you'll be sending a fullrange signal to the mid, it's a bad idea regardless.

Since the Jeep is a different animal than most cars, the rear speakers in the sound bar don't help make it sound better while driving, they are more for tailgating. If you can avoid having them at all, that would be best.

Really, the best sound quality you'll get for your budget is to buy a decent 4 channel amp, bridge channels 3 and 4 to a sub, and run a pair of good components up front on channels 1 and 2.
I appreciate the info. Quite a bit to digest and figure out. I should have asked last weekend, instead of beating my head against a wall trying to figure this out on my own.
I may need to figure out the bar speakers, to be honest. College football tailgate's, trips to the lake, camping .. a lot of top off, music played at all the locations mentioned.
College kid will want to 'show off'.
 

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I appreciate the info. Quite a bit to digest and figure out. I should have asked last weekend, instead of beating my head against a wall trying to figure this out on my own.
I may need to figure out the bar speakers, to be honest. College football tailgate's, trips to the lake, camping .. a lot of top off, music played at all the locations mentioned.
College kid will want to 'show off'.
Here's what I would do...

Get a decent 5 channel amp, I promise you can get something good for around $300. Throw a basic set of coax speakers in the sound bar, you won't have to spend much since they won't be contributing to the sound quality of the front (ideally they'll be off when listening to music from the front seats) and when they are on for tailgating sound quality won't be a huge concern. After a decent 5 channel amp, and some basic rear coax speakers, spend the rest on a good set of 6.5" components up front (leaving wiggle room for install equipment like wiring, fuse holder, etc.). You can do some sound deadening if you want, but personally, I wouldn't bother with it in a Jeep.

Wire the front components to channels 1 and 2, wire the rear coax to channels 3 and 4, and the sub to channel 5. This keeps the install simple, which is good for your patience, and better acoustically.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Here's what I would do...
Ok, I see where you are headed. It's tough to find straight coax 6.5's, on Crutchfield anyway...
What about something like this ...
Morel Tempo Ultra 602
Morel Maximo Coax 6
with
NVX VAD1100.5 1100w -- 80w x 4ch at 4ohms with 350w x 1
Taramps?
DS Candy
Never heard of these companies.
 

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Has the sub amp already been purchased?

Are you expecting the overhead bar to contribute significantly to the loudness while tailgating? I'm concerned that you may be disappointed. You've received some good advice to skip the "rear" overhead bar and put more money into the front components. I've had a Jeep with speakers in the overhead soundbar. It's pretty terrible and will interfere with sound quality of the front. Sound from the bar will be louder and arrive sooner than sound from the front speakers. This will be destructive to soundstage and frequency response. As GIJoe has said, keep this simple. You would need some DSP flexibility to integrate the rears correctly.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Has the sub amp already been purchased?

Are you expecting the overhead bar to contribute significantly to the loudness while tailgating? I'm concerned that you may be disappointed. You've received some good advice to skip the "rear" overhead bar and put more money into the front components. I've had a Jeep with speakers in the overhead soundbar. It's pretty terrible and will interfere with sound quality of the front. Sound from the bar will be louder and arrive sooner than sound from the front speakers. This will be destructive to soundstage and frequency response. As GIJoe has said, keep this simple. You would need some DSP flexibility to integrate the rears correctly.
The sub amp has not been purchased as of yet. Would two matching components help?
 

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A lot of great insight here. Morel make terrific speakers as do audiofrog (I'm running stuff from each now). I dont think you can go wrong with either. The 2-way front stage with a 4 channel sub would allow you to get quality front components.

More importantly, I wanted to chime in and say that you sound like a really awesome dad. Congratulations to your son on his graduation!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
A lot of great insight here. Morel make terrific speakers as do audiofrog (I'm running stuff from each now). I dont think you can go wrong with either. The 2-way front stage with a 4 channel sub would allow you to get quality front components.

More importantly, I wanted to chime in and say that you sound like a really awesome dad. Congratulations to your son on his graduation!
Thank you sir! I appreciate the feedback. She’s going to like it I’m sure. 👍🏼
It’s all worth it.
 

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Is your daughter really into sound quality systems ? I doubt it. I'm guessing she can't discern differences in Sony '4 ways' and Morel coaxials, if she is the typical teenager, and why wouldn't she be ?
I don't understand this talk of coaxials in the rollbar for tailgating because the speaker pods aren't pointed backward. The rollbar isn't in the rear of the vehicle. It is almost directly over the seatbacks, if not.
Your front soundstage is primarily created by midrange and high frequencies. Put large midrange speakers in the doors and large tweeters in the dash. Put midbass speakers in the rollbar. Put a sub under the rear seat. You need to use a 3 way set with passive crossovers since I see no mention of a DSP. You need a set that will handle at least 100 watts per side. The power will come in handy with the top off.
Also, I think you are kidding yourself about her not wanting a sub system that slams. That's what they all want.
Also, reading your posts reads like you are wanting this to be your dream system. I really doubt she cares or knows what sound quality is.
I have 5 kids. They all talk about the new 'country' artists on social media and it's what you hear them listening to most. When you drive by them or pull up on them or see videos with them and their friends at the sandbar or beach, they are blasting 'gangsta rap'.
 
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