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Lol I've set crossovers like that plenty of times. It works to some degree, but what I've found is that it isn't always in agreement with getting it to mesh with the sub. That sub to mid blend is a very difficult area. Phase issues can be a mofo

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lol

Well thats great info, but my approach is a little more archaic....possibly cheaper to..... what I like to do is model it in the car. How, you ask... well its actually a very risky process because if I'm not careful, I could damage something. So what I'll do is have a listen to some bass music, something I know will push things to the limit. I'll set the crossover a little high at first. Get a feel for it at higher volume. Sound good, I'll go down on the frequency and see how it like it and if it sounds good still or distorts. I'll keep going down until they no longer sound clear or the start to rattle...thats where I have to be careful...rattle is no good....you want to stay out of that zone. Then I'll play with the slope, so say it will dig pretty low but will only handle a little bit of power at lower frequencies...I'll adjust the slope in relation to that.



I know I know....I got jokes. :)

In all seriousness, this is more or less what i've been doing for now. I just wanted to make some of you cringe for a minute....in my mind tho, car audio isnt that serious to me. You try this crap with a motor, you better be prepared to suffer the consequences.... on these cheap speakers, i'm really not worried if I blow anything.



Hey remember that rattle i mentioned earlier? Well I treated the rear deck to some more deadening last night, cut the hole out for the other woofer and installed it. I fastened the wires down that i though were rattling....well when I cut the back deck on the first hole, I mustve cut the pinch weld out. when i hooked up sub number 2....it really started rattling. I put some hondabond between them last night but I'm rethinking my decision. I think I should have just tacked it back in place with my tig welder. I think this evening that is what I'm going to do. It make break the hondabond loose later on......
Damn...there is nothing wrong with any of that. That's the only way you could do it not too long ago.
 

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So I'm rethinking things right now. I dont really need a 750w amp on what I have. I'm thinking about buying something that wont be gross ovekill like what I have and MAYBE have a dsp built in. that would be nice. I'd like to get rid of the dayton dsp if possible. I'd prefer less components if possible. Amp suggestions maybe? without me starting ANOTHER 400+ post thread...lol
This is what I am doing. I have a Helix V EIGHT DSP mk2 on the way, scheduled for delivery on Monday. 8 channels of 75w amplification, with an additional 2 channels of pre-outs, for a total of 10 DSP controlled channels, all in one box. I plan to add rear fills, and a center speaker, so 7 channels of amplification (2 front left, 2 front right, 1 center, 2 rear fill) plus the two pre-out channels for the sub. So I'll use 9 of the 10 channels.

I also got the Conductor controller, so I can easily switch between a single seat SQ tune (no center, minimal rear fill, TA optimized for the driver's seat), or a two seat jamming tune (center enabled, rear fill turned up, TA optimized for two seats). I'll also be able to control the sub level with the conductor.

Camera lens Camera accessory Peripheral Gadget Lens



Per my measurements, the conductor knob will fit perfectly, right next to the window switches. It should look OEM like in there. and then I can remove the RF bass knob from under the Mode/Set buttons.

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This is what I am doing. I have a Helix V EIGHT DSP mk2 on the way, scheduled for delivery on Monday. 8 channels of 75w amplification, with an additional 2 channels of pre-outs, for a total of 10 DSP controlled channels, all in one box. I plan to add rear fills, and a center speaker, so 7 channels of amplification (2 front left, 2 front right, 1 center, 2 rear fill) plus the two pre-out channels for the sub. So I'll use 9 of the 10 channels.

I also got the Conductor controller, so I can easily switch between a single seat SQ tune (no center, minimal rear fill, TA optimized for the driver's seat), or a two seat jamming tune (center enabled, rear fill turned up, TA optimized for two seats). I'll also be able to control the sub level with the conductor.

View attachment 311973


Per my measurements, the conductor knob will fit perfectly, right next to the window switches. It should look OEM like in there. and then I can remove the RF bass knob from under the Mode/Set buttons.

View attachment 311972
No knobs bro....no knobs. Anywhere
 

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Discussion Starter · #426 ·
This is what I am doing. I have a Helix V EIGHT DSP mk2 on the way, scheduled for delivery on Monday. 8 channels of 75w amplification, with an additional 2 channels of pre-outs, for a total of 10 DSP controlled channels, all in one box. I plan to add rear fills, and a center speaker, so 7 channels of amplification (2 front left, 2 front right, 1 center, 2 rear fill) plus the two pre-out channels for the sub. So I'll use 9 of the 10 channels.

I also got the Conductor controller, so I can easily switch between a single seat SQ tune (no center, minimal rear fill, TA optimized for the driver's seat), or a two seat jamming tune (center enabled, rear fill turned up, TA optimized for two seats). I'll also be able to control the sub level with the conductor.

View attachment 311973


Per my measurements, the conductor knob will fit perfectly, right next to the window switches. It should look OEM like in there. and then I can remove the RF bass knob from under the Mode/Set buttons.

View attachment 311972
Man I would rock that sub control knob......that thing looks elegant. Everything else I've seen just looks cheesy. I'm going to imagine that setup costs more coin than I'm willing to spend.....
 

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Man I would rock that sub control knob......that thing looks elegant. Everything else I've seen just looks cheesy. I'm going to imagine that setup costs more coin than I'm willing to spend.....
You can find that for around $200 if you talk to the right person. Since you're wanting to ditch the dayton dsp, the helix amp/dsp combos would be the perfect time to make the conversion.
 

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Man I would rock that sub control knob......that thing looks elegant. Everything else I've seen just looks cheesy. I'm going to imagine that setup costs more coin than I'm willing to spend.....
Ya, the entire setup isn't cheap. $1300 for the V EIGHT DSP mk2, and another $150 for the Conductor controller. But I typically only do this sort of thing once every 7 - 10 years or so LOL! Once I have a setup I like, I tend to keep it for a long time ... I really just want to bring my GTO up to par with the modern technology of current vehicles. Doing this will do that, while also freeing up my head unit replacement selection since the DSP will handle all the SQ for me. I can focus more on features (like capacitive touch screen, NAV, backup cam, wireless car play, etc, etc...) and not worry about the SQ features so much.

I'll most likely transfer the 80PRS headunit, the Toro amp, and the speakers I replaced, into my 1984 K5 blazer. This gear should feel right at home in there :)
 
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Man I would rock that sub control knob......that thing looks elegant. Everything else I've seen just looks cheesy. I'm going to imagine that setup costs more coin than I'm willing to spend.....
You literally told me I was an idiot for linking it earlier....
 

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Man I would rock that sub control knob......that thing looks elegant. Everything else I've seen just looks cheesy.
Oh, and it's not really a sub control knob .. but is a controller for the ACO based DSP units (like the new Helix line). One of the functions is to control the sub level, but it does a lot more too.

It does require an ACO based DSP to function though.

Here's a video SkizeR made on an install he did with it:

 

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Discussion Starter · #431 ·
Ok. Wow. Let me just say, these subs are a huge improvement. They play every note I need them to. They actually hit pretty hard too, I listened to a few problem songs I had before that just had absence in some bass notes. It was weird. I’m about to let it do an auto tune on the dsp and see how that goes. I barely have to take any out at 40hz and had to add 3db from 20-35hz. I’m impressed and wish I would have started with these.
 

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Ok. Wow. Let me just say, these subs are a huge improvement. They play every note I need them to. They actually hit pretty hard too, I listened to a few problem songs I had before that just had absence in some bass notes. It was weird. I’m about to let it do an auto tune on the dsp and see how that goes. I barely have to take any out at 40hz and had to add 3db from 20-35hz. I’m impressed and wish I would have started with these.
Nice! I can’t wait to see what the frequency response looks like on the RTA.

You’re giving me hope man LOL
 

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Discussion Starter · #434 ·
Ok this is what it came up with. I’m not sure what the tall thin line is but the red and blue are no correction and the thick black line is correction. Much better than the other subs.


Rectangle Slope Font Plot Line



I’m not gonna lie, I really had to talk myself into liking the other subs and then after having a little time playing different songs, I realized it was missing bass notes in areas and it wasn’t acceptable. I’ve been in the car for about 30 mins trying to find a song that they don’t like, and I haven’t. Before I’m 100% on them let me have a little more time, but from what I’ve heard so far, these are what I should have bought. I have the subs crossed at 63hz -12 slope and the flutes pick up at 63hz on a -12db, they blend together 1000% better than before….at least that’s what my ears are telling me.

o yea. They blend nicely. I’m listening to a really strong bass song and they just compliment each other. So I can cut the subs off, and listen to the flutes and they have some good bass on their own….then I turn the subs in and the mid bass gets stronger but like it’s coming from the flutes then of course they drop a little lower and pick up where the flutes leave off. I’m digging it so far! Thanks bayboy for the recommendation of these subs. I think these are what I was looking for.
 

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Ok this is what it came up with. I’m not sure what the tall thin line is but the red and blue are no correction and the thick black line is correction. Much better than the other subs.


View attachment 312022


I’m not gonna lie, I really had to talk myself into liking the other subs and then after having a little time playing different songs, I realized it was missing bass notes in areas and it wasn’t acceptable. I’ve been in the car for about 30 mins trying to find a song that they don’t like, and I haven’t. Before I’m 100% on them let me have a little more time, but from what I’ve heard so far, these are what I should have bought. I have the subs crossed at 63hz -12 slope and the flutes pick up at 63hz on a -12db, they blend together 1000% better than before….at least that’s what my ears are telling me.

o yea. They blend nicely. I’m listening to a really strong bass song and they just compliment each other. So I can cut the subs off, and listen to the flutes and they have some good bass on their own….then I turn the subs in and the mid bass gets stronger but like it’s coming from the flutes then of course they drop a little lower and pick up where the flutes leave off. I’m digging it so far! Thanks bayboy for the recommendation of these subs. I think these are what I was looking for.
You're welcome & glad you find them of use. We all tend to get caught up in marketing trends and admittedly, that has been the result for me. I just so happened to stumble upon some erroneously spec'd subs that worked better than ones that should have been superior.

Thank goodness for the DATS not only for revealing that, but reminding me of how much cabin gain exists and should be utilized. The crazy part is that's the tactic I've preferred for years when choosing sealed subs (dovetail F3). Dayton Reference HO 10" has been my favorite for years. Yeah.... guess I'm a bone head at times.

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Ok this is what it came up with. I’m not sure what the tall thin line is but the red and blue are no correction and the thick black line is correction. Much better than the other subs.


View attachment 312022
Where is that chart coming from? Is it from the Dayton DSP, or maybe some measurement you took using your phone's built in mic, or maybe is it just a modeled graph?

What I meant by being excited to see the frequency response, is when you get the calibration mic and can take some frequency sweep and pink noise response readings. That'll be nice to see :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #439 ·
Where is that chart coming from? Is it from the Dayton DSP, or maybe some measurement you took using your phone's built in mic, or maybe is it just a modeled graph?

What I meant by being excited to see the frequency response, is when you get the calibration mic and can take some frequency sweep and pink noise response readings. That'll be nice to see :)
The Dayton dsp has its own compensation and it’s calibrated for an iPhone mic. It sends a few test tones then a frequency sweep and measures it then it corrects it for liner, boomy and something else. Linear sounded better so that’s what I ended up with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #440 ·
Ok. Everyone left so I got to be a big kid and crank it up. Yea. These are what I was looking for. I listened to a wide variety of music and they did better than I expected. My son drove up and listened and he’s Impressed. He wants the same sub in his 2015 Genesis. So yea, I’m happy. The whole setup sounds better than any system I’ve ever owned. I’m pretty confident about it now.
 
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