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Discussion Starter · #21 · (Edited)
This post compares RTA results to the Imprint result screen from my latest Imprint run.

This Imprint run is the first since I installed my PA BB175.4 amp to run my mids. Initially, I just plugged the PA in place of my SS Ref500sx, and set it's gains to sound good in the previous Imprint setup. The first RTA trace is that setup, but with Imprint turned off.



The second trace shows the levels set prior to the new Imprint run. I just try to get the tweeter level set to look similar to the top octave of the mids, or a little lower. The tweeter highpass is 2.5Khz/12dB.

Before running Imprint, I also turned the sub gain down 12dB, and applied an 8dB narrow notch @ 40Hz to try to knock down the 45 Hz resonant peak. Those changes are shown in this trace.



The following two shots are the Imprint filter result predictions. I always load the "Reference" and "with Midrange Comp" curves, but generally try to use the "reference" curve.




This RTA trace is of the results when the "reference" curve is used.



The red trace is with the sub gains still turned down, the blue trace shows the result of turning the gain up to maximum on the sub amp, and another 2 dB cut to the 45 hz peak.

These results sounded good in the Bass and lower MR, but were really too bright. I have been driving around with this setup for a couple of days and have been progressivly turning down the tweeter level. I have a result now that sounds awesome at medium to highish levels. I think I have likely turned the tweeters down by about 6dB. I will try to setup the RTA to take an after measurement.
 

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86mr2,

First of all, awesome thread and awesome post.

Do you manually set crossover points thru the 9887? If so, have you tried crossing the mid and tweet closer together; or have you tried flipping the phase on the tweets; to get rid of that nasty pre-EQ dip? That dip doesn't look a cabin acoustic feature to my newb eyes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Crossing the mids and tweets closer together makes no difference to the dip at all. The low crossover on the mid is my latest effort to take some of the energy out of the audible 1.8kHz resonant peak. I have tried symmetric and asymmetric crossovers from 1.6Khz to 3.2Khz, and all tend to be harsher and brighter sounding.

I tried flipping phase a few months ago and was not happy with the results. I am going to try it again though.

At this point, my car is absolutely the best I have ever heard. That is not saying lots, since I do not go to competitions. The few show/demo cars I have heard have driven me away through a combination of hip-hip and obnoxious loudness. I have ridden in a few cars with premium OEM systems, and this one beats the ones I have heard for detail and natural, up-front bass.

This setup is the smoothest and appropriately bassy enough for the highway. My system has to support 5 and 8 hour highway trips without being fatiguing. The increase in power to the mids has made an enormous difference.

There is more work to do, but the results to this point are certainly useable enough.
 

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Crossing the mids and tweets closer together makes no difference to the dip at all. The low crossover on the mid is my latest effort to take some of the energy out of the audible 1.8kHz resonant peak. I have tried symmetric and asymmetric crossovers from 1.6Khz to 3.2Khz, and all tend to be harsher and brighter sounding.


I tried flipping phase a few months ago and was not happy with the results. I am going to try it again though.

At this point, my car is absolutely the best I have ever heard. That is not saying lots, since I do not go to competitions. The few show/demo cars I have heard have driven me away through a combination of hip-hip and obnoxious loudness. I have ridden in a few cars with premium OEM systems, and this one beats the ones I have heard for detail and natural, up-front bass.

This setup is the smoothest and appropriately bassy enough for the highway. My system has to support 5 and 8 hour highway trips without being fatiguing. The increase in power to the mids has made an enormous difference.

There is more work to do, but the results to this point are certainly useable enough.
Is your Imprint set for just you as the listener, or do you have a two seat setting. I'd still like to try the two seat mode.

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
I just set up for one seat. The only time it matters is on long trips when I take a break in the passenger seat. The rest of the time, my wife really doesn't care or notice. I think I only ever set it up for "all" once, and was not that crazy about it.
 

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Awesome post 86mr2, thanks for sharing your results.

I've had similar issues with system sounding too bright after Imprint. I seem to have the best results when I set the tweeter level so it averages slightly higher (by 1-2db or so) than the target curve. This forces the Imprint to cut rather than boost. For some reason, when Imprint boosts in the treble it can give some really odd results. I then set the tweeter level 3-6db lower than the midbass. How much depends on crossover point, and what I want the final response to look like. I have only personally used the H650, no real experience with the 9887, but it looks like they're quite similar.

BTW, did you change your sub/mid crossover points at all after running Imprint? Npdang in his initial review mentioned these cause a problem dip at the crossover frequency, which I don't see in your results. I seem to be having a similar phasing issue with the default crossover points so I always have to experiment with them after calibrations... Maybe its just an H650 bug...
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 · (Edited)
Normally, I set the sub/mid crossover before running Imprint. In the past, the few times I let Imprint set the crossover itself I was not satisfied. I experimented with 63, 80, 100, and 125.

Since I had more power available for the mids I decided to try something different.
This time, I actually set the sub/mid crossover flat and let Imprint set the crossover itself. I have to be honest, this has provided the most consistently up front bass I have ever had.

It looks like there is a hole centered around 100Hz, which does make me wonder if there is a phase issue, assuming Imprint set the crossover at 100. I will try reversing phase on the sub and see what happens. Probably screw something else up.
 

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I'm planning the install of a PXA-H100 Imprint to an iDA-x200 head unit. Simple question, but I can't seem to find the answer. After the thing is set up what happens when I disconnect the battery? Do I have to reload the settings from the software or do they remain in memory?

I thought it would be useful in determining how accessable the PXA-H100 is in terms of hooking up the computer.
 

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A great thing that solves a lot of problems is a line driver. I have the tru technology ssld6 and I lower the sub output from the start and raise the comps... Afterwards I lower the comps and raise the sub. Let's me get way tighter bass than just adjusting the sub gain on the amp.
 

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Completed the instalation of the PXA-H100 with the iDA-x200. Ran into a bit of trouble with the -2 error code. I ran the AI-Net cable from the head unit to the processor box and another from the processor to an XM radio. Error code -2.

Called Alpine support. Was told that the XM needed to come from the head unit with the processor at the end of the line. Still got the -2 code. Ran just the processor off the head unit (disconnected the XM) and the program ran fine. Hooked the XM back up the way Alpine suggested and everything seems to be fine. The Alpine guy said the AI-Net pasthrough on the processor should be used by nothing other than a CD changer. Nothing about this in any of the manuals.

Love the result.
 

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Re: Imprint tuning hints

I may try Chris from Audessy's recommendations one day when I'm bored.
This day came for me today. I had a couple of hours to kill so why not play with the Imprint again.

For the drivers seat I usually have been doing the following:
  • #1 position - Center of headrest, 4" forward.
  • #4 position - 3" to the left of center and 4" forward.
  • #5 position - 3" to the right of center and 4" forward.
  • #6 position - 4.5" to the right of position #5 (Almost to the edge of my seat) and 4" forward.

I changed #6 position to the same as #1 position, but to 7" forward (Per the Audessy suggestion.) I perfer this result better than my previous routine. I've only had like 15 minutes listening to it this way, so things may change, but so far.... :D
 

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Re: Imprint tuning hints

This day came for me today. I had a couple of hours to kill so why not play with the Imprint again.


For the drivers seat I usually have been doing the following:
  • #1 position - Center of headrest, 4" forward.
  • #4 position - 3" to the left of center and 4" forward.
  • #5 position - 3" to the right of center and 4" forward.
  • #6 position - 4.5" to the right of position #5 (Almost to the edge of my seat) and 4" forward.
I changed #6 position to the same as #1 position, but to 7" forward (Per the Audessy suggestion.) I perfer this result better than my previous routine. I've only had like 15 minutes listening to it this way, so things may change, but so far.... :D

is it better than the positions given by the alpine tech guy?
 

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I personally liked the Audessy way a bit better. YMMV.
 

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Hey guys,

I just read this whole thread and very usefull information in here!!

My problem though has been unique from all the ones I've read here.

I have a 2003 BMW M3 and I'm current running Focal 165 K2P speakers in the front and Focal 130KP's in the rear powered by a JL 450/4 Amp.

My sub is a Jl 12W6V2 with a 500/1.

To compensate for the sub bass problem... I just turned my gain all the way down as suggested. The sub hits fine and I'm very satisfied with it.

My main problem though is all my midbass from my Focal's are gone!! Before tuning, they would hit somehwat hard. (Not as hard as a factory WRX... I will explain below) Now after tuning and the MultiEQ on either Reference or Reference w/mid comp... they hit a LOT LESS... and once I start my car (loud exhaust) I can barely hear them, nor feel them when the multi EQ is turned on. My buddy with a WRX and his factory system bumps soooo hard with the bass turned up... I feel the seat and door panel pounding against me. I cannot believe my $700 focals with 150Watts and a Alpine head unit isn't giving me the same feeling. Even my 99' 4Runner with factory POS JBL speakers +amp and a nice old school alpine head unit has much more bass coming from the front doors. My doors are not dynamated just cause I heard the e46 BMW door is already well insulated. Will dynamating it make a huge difference?

Pretty much... is there any way I can setup my system to trick the Imprint to give me more midbass?

I noticed the tutorial requested that the sub amp gain be turned all the way down and the crossover to be turned off. Would it be beneficial to turn on the crossover to 65Hz and try to trick the imprint in giving more 65-200Hz to my focal midbasses by only letting the sub play 65Hz and under?

Also, my mids and highs are kind of muddy now... not clear and sharp anymore. They were definitely a bit too bright before (when a girls vocal or a top hat hit... my ears would pierce)... but now... it sounds really bad... like it's muffled.

Is there any way I'm supposed to set my focal crossovers? I have them at -3dB's for the tweeters to dumb down the brightness right now...

Also... does messing with the EQ and audio settings before I tune with imprint actually make a difference? I would hope not. Are these settings supposed to be 0'd? (bass, treble, subwoofer level... etc)

Thank you in advance for your replies.



-Calvin
 

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The settings will make a difference, atleast with the tweet / mid xover. I run activly and that is whjere my adjustments are made. I THINK the mid / sub over is in the same boat, but I've just been using what imprint comes up with. Everything else should be set to zero. Play with those gains if need be.
 

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To get your midbass from the focals back...lower the xover on the sub. Imprit is trying to send it through that, which is good for stock speakers. Make ure xover on the focals isn't too high also.
 

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I had the same problem. I let the Imprint setup the crossover and I lost all midbass from my JBL's. I went back in and changed the xovers and it made a huge difference. I'm not sure if I screwed something up by doing it but it sounds much better.

On a side note. Coming from an old HT guy but newer to CA. When you go into the crossovers in the setup, it lists low, med, and high. I assume that if I'm running a 2 way active, only low and med will have any effect? Or would it be low and high? Also, what would be the point of setting the low and medium separate from each other? My JBL's -3 point is 50 hz so I set the xover for 63 at an 18 db slope. If setting the JBL's at 63, wouldn't you also want the sub at 63 to get the best blend?
 

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no matter what you set the xover at...imprint will make its own. I checked the files once and imprint had set my front mid to xover at 40. Thats one of the reasons I ditched the imprint...you can trick it to do 1 thing but, then it does another thing to combat what you changed.

Its amazing technology but it just refuses to allow the user to give the orders. Really designed for plug and play...no more.
 
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