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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Well guys, here we go! I have been using a JL 12w7 prowedge in my car for about two years and decided it was time for an upgrade. I have heard so many good things about the Morel Ultimo and Ultimo SC that I took a chance and ordered one. The PG Ti12d is in the picture because I purchased that just before I found the great deal on the Morel.

So anyway, back to the test. My head unit is an Alpine CDA-9887. I am making full use of the time alignment, crossovers and parametric eq. For comps I am running a pair of Morel mt23 tweeters along with a set of Morel Supremo 6's glassed in my doors. Everything is crossed active by the Alpine (LP 63HZ 24db/Mid-low 80hz 12db/mid-hi 2500k 12db/hi 4k 18db).

My Morel comp set is powered by a Soundstream Reference 414s while an old school Phoenix ZPA 0.5 is handling subwoofer duties.

Enclosures consist of the stock prowedge for the JL while the Morel and PG will each have their own 1.21 cu3 3/4" sealed MDF enclosure stuffed with polyfil.

The subwoofers will be mounted one at a time in the trunk of my 2007 Honda Accord. Tests will happen with the rear arm rest up and the arm rest in the down position, down lets more air in from the trunk.

Well those are the initial test parameters, more to follow shortly! :beerchug:
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
The PG and boxes arrived today. After pulling out the PG and inspecting it, all I can say is what a beast! Overbuilt and user serviceable, nice. I mounted the PG in the 1.21 box and used a generous amount of polyfil.

After swapping the PG for the JL, I was about to fire things up when I was called into work, lame! I only had a brief listen before I was dragged away so a full on review will have to wait until tomorrow. In the short time I had I have to say the PG is for sure a more accurate sub than the JL however it doesnt get quite as loud. That Ti is a power monger for sure as I have 1200 watts RMS on the beast! It had a better balanced tone than the Jl which at times can get unruly. The PG integrated with my front end much better also.

Well thats all the time I had to review, here are the pics and expect an update tomorrow night!









 

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Cocktease. ;)

That PG looks hella nasty though.
 

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What the fu$k ive been waiting a week for this shit.
You need get to get your priorities strait work:rolleyes: wtf :laugh:
 

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I try to warn him about that sub. But I guess he didnt listen. Not only does it look nasty, you can tell they didnt put any time in design. "Hey lets throw some LEDs, I know that will get the teens attention". I bet the SQ will be just as the looks, NASTY. Dont get me wrong it might put out some nasty bass SPL.

This one is simple the W7 and Ultimo will be on top. This one (PG) will be put up for sale pretty soon.
 

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Are you going to do any tuning of the crossover points/slopes or for each sub? Are you using enclosures optimized for each sub? If not all you're going to find out which sub fits that particular setup, not which is better overall.
 

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I try to warn him about that sub. But I guess he didnt listen. Not only does it look nasty, you can tell they didnt put any time in design. "Hey lets throw some LEDs, I know that will get the teens attention". I bet the SQ will be just as the looks, NASTY. Dont get me wrong it might put out some nasty bass SPL.

This one is simple the W7 and Ultimo will be on top. This one (PG) will be put up for sale pretty soon.
Actually the Ti sub has great build quality. The 3 LEDs were to match the Titanium line of their amplifiers. The sound quality is excellent. That was a $900 subwoofer when it came out. Not that price makes a sub good... but this sub was not made for a teenager... it was a serious contender.

Here's some specs on the sub...

•Titanium Elite 12" Woofer
•User Replaceable Cone and Coil
•Aluminum cooling ring
•Built-In Blue LED's
•RMS Power Handling: 1000 Watts
•Max Power Handling: 2000 Watts
•Impedance: Dual 4 ohms
•Three, 3" High Temperature Voice Coil
•Cast Aluminum Basket
•Optimized for a small 0.75 sealed enclosure
•Kevlar reinforced pulp cone
•Custom tooled injection molded spider spacer with integrated venting
•Triple stack huge 235 ounce ceramic 5 magnet
•Large four layer aluminum 3 inch voice coil
•Machined aluminum cooling ring
•Computer optimized low carbon steel
•Cast aluminum heatsink
•Composite anodized aluminum flat panel diaphragm
•Large roll rubber surround
•Black anodized 3 inch former
•Computer opimized dual 9 inch spider
•Custom tooled cast aluminum basket
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Are you going to do any tuning of the crossover points/slopes or for each sub? Are you using enclosures optimized for each sub? If not all you're going to find out which sub fits that particular setup, not which is better overall.
Yes on slopes and points (love being active) and the enclosures are dead in the middle of the manufacturers sealed box recommendations.
 

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Sweet. I saw your initial settings and the first thing that ran through my head was how boomy the W7 will sound with those settings. I MUCH prefer it crossed between 80Hz and 100Hz. I've even gone as high as 120Hz with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Sweet. I saw your initial settings and the first thing that ran through my head was how boomy the W7 will sound with those settings. I MUCH prefer it crossed between 80Hz and 100Hz. I've even gone as high as 120Hz with it.
I tried it crossed at 80hz and it seemed worse as far as control... I am excited with my initial listen on the PG, is seems much more balanced than the JL with all the same settings. I am running my eq flat for now, will do some messing around with eqing after the first testing round.
 

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When you use the higher crossover points on the W7 you need to turn it WAY down or it'll overpower everything. If you get the W7 back in for more testing give that a go. It'll take care of the blending, control, and boominess issues all at once.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
When you use the higher crossover points on the W7 you need to turn it WAY down or it'll overpower everything. If you get the W7 back in for more testing give that a go. It'll take care of the blending, control, and boominess issues all at once.
Will give it a shot. Yep, the 12w7 will get its turn in the car again, several times I am sure. Its my reference woofer just because I am so familiar with it...
 

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Here are the t/s specs for the Ti12d Elite.

T/S Parameters:
Fs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .26.36 Hz
Re . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1.42 Ohms
Qms . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4.94
Qes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .0.632
Qts . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .0.56
Vas . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .34.1 liters
Mms . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .371 grams
Cms . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .98 uM/Newton
Vas . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .34.1 Tesla-M
SPL (2.83V) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .86.18dB
Sd . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .495 sq cm
Xmax (p-p) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .50.5mm
 

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Here are the t/s specs for the Ti12d Elite.

T/S Parameters:
Fs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .26.36 Hz
Re . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1.42 Ohms
Qms . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4.94
Qes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .0.632
Qts . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .0.56
Vas . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .34.1 liters
Mms . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .371 grams
Cms . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .98 uM/Newton
Vas . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .34.1 Tesla-M
SPL (2.83V) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .86.18dB
Sd . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .495 sq cm
Xmax (p-p) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .50.5mm
The stats look good..:)
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
HERE WE GO! ROUND 1, Jl Audio 12w7 vs Phoenix Gold Ti12d Elite!




I had a solid hour tonight with the PG and let me tell you, WOW! What a night and day improvement over the Jl! The Ti12d was smoother and was extremely balanced when compared to the Jl. When listening to the Ti the bass lines were wider, longer and the bass was right up front. The Ti sounds much more natural with very little decay, especially when compared to the 12w7. I also noticed my soundstage was planted firmly in front of me with the PG, the JL tends to override the front end with inconsistent output. The output was not flat with the JL, it would be in need of some serious eq to have any chance of running with the PG. Even then the Jl has so much decay between notes that IMHO no amount of eq will allow it to keep pace with the Ti12d.

The Jl is flabby and loose when compared directly to the PG.

The JL wins in SPL however, thats no contest! The PG is a power monger, it ate up my 1200w RMS A/B amplifier without blinking an eye. I firmly believe the PG can handle 2000 watts RMS, thats no joke. If you have the power these old skewl PG subs would be hard to beat bang for the buck.

With all this said I believe the Jl would benefit from a slightly smaller enclosure while I have no doubt the PG would shine even brighter in a 1.5 cu3 box instead of my 1.2.

Round 1 winner, the PHOENIX GOLD Ti12d Elite, hands down!! :thumbsup:


Next up, the Morel Ultimo SC vs the Phoenix Gold Ti12d Elite!

The Ultimo will not be here until the middle/end of next week, so tune in next week friends, same bat time, same bat channel!

 

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The TI is a serious contender. Most people haven't heard this sub and look at the 3 leds and think it's the equivelant of a Boss sub or something. I'm building my home sub tonight for my ti12d elite. I'm just hoping the 1000 watts I give it from my home sub amplifier will be enough.:)
 

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Since when was Phonix Gold a hi-end brand for them to try to retail a sub over 800.00?? I know the old school PG was top notch, but the new stuff is pretty much crap and by looking at that sub am proven right. Sorry guys but thats just my opinion.

And am sure you can find them for less than 300 brand new.
 

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Since when was Phonix Gold a hi-end brand for them to try to retail a sub over 800.00?? I know the old school PG was top notch, but the new stuff is pretty much crap and by looking at that sub am proven right. Sorry guys but thats just my opinion.

And am sure you can find them for less than 300 brand new.
Actually they aren't sold anymore. And when this sub was sold Phoenix Gold was a much different company. This was the era of the Titanium ZX600, ZX500.4, ZX475... This isn't "new stuff" by any means. And speaking of new stuff... The RSD subs sound phenominal! I'm betting that they were one of the best subs for the money you could buy. $100 for a 12 with EXCELLENT SQ. We're all entitled to our opinions and I will respect yours.
 

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Since when was Phonix Gold a hi-end brand for them to try to retail a sub over 800.00?? I know the old school PG was top notch, but the new stuff is pretty much crap and by looking at that sub am proven right. Sorry guys but thats just my opinion.

And am sure you can find them for less than 300 brand new.
They haven't made that sub in several years.
 

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Just goes to show I dont know shit about PG. Sorry.

Am still stuck on the first Cerwin Strokers.
 
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