[Ocelaris]

I have heard (and believe from what I've read) that the turn on "pop" is something actually of a positive nature... being that all amps have that, just that some amps have output relays which only turn on once the transistors or whatever turn on... the "pop" doesn't hurt equipment, just annoying.

*when i say 'amps' I mean headunits or anything with an amplifier/preamp internally...

just my .02$

 

[dodgerblue]

the on-off-pop can be damaging to tweeters ,and can cause them to over exert in one direction depending on the amount of current-voltage sent to it ,over a period of time it will degrade the tweeter.

 

[racerraul]

thats a beautiful deck-24bit dacs, 3 way x-over with bp. etc. only thing i dont like is the price!

When you consider all you get, I think it a great deal for $800...

4way xOver $150-$250
5band para EQ $150-$250
T/A $??? (we'll call this a bonus)

That leaves about $300-$500 for the CD player section & what would compare to it in that price range? Alpine? Eclipse? Maybe, but I doubt it...

Heck... now days people pay more for HU with built in monitors that can't do 1/2 that Clarion does...

If Clarion would hurry up and build a CD Changer like Alpine's S634, I would be in the Atic looking for stuff to sell & get that Clarion... But for now my 9835 gets purty close

 

[racerraul]

I have heard (and believe from what I've read) that the turn on "pop" is something actually of a positive nature... being that all amps have that, just that some amps have output relays which only turn on once the transistors or whatever turn on... the "pop" doesn't hurt equipment, just annoying.

*when i say 'amps' I mean headunits or anything with an amplifier/preamp internally...

just my .02$

To me it is unacceptable... If it snaps, crackles & pops out side of my bowl of cereal, it is broke & has to go

Seriously, I have built a speaker level relay circuit for a 3 way active setup that delays all the negative speaker wires for a fraction of a second, & disconnects them immediately using the remote turn on as trigger. I did this with a set of old amps that had turn on/off pop...

I had no negative effects in SQ or induced noise.

If the amp, HU companies can't implement something that simple to get rid of it... their engineers suck... it aint that hard & if it is, then I'd like to know why...

 

[demon2091tb]

Well i can't spend $800 or more on a single CD player, sure its loaded with lots of features but it would break my bank easy. Just the HU would be as expensive as everything else in my install thus far.

$250-300 is more my speed right now.

 

[3.5max6spd]

there are reported on/off pops from 8443 users....not 8053 or 8454 (if u want mp3)

Clearly a bad batch of sorts, because my CD8443 that i used for 1.5yrs had no such issues. Same has been said by other 8443 users.

Now if you do a search on Pioneer 860's you'll find a shyt load of users haven noise issues stemmed from bum internal grounds. Some 960's suffer from premature dual face mechanism failures, and eating cd's . Just be informed of their issues

I think for the money, there's nothing better than Eclipse for a deck offering 3 preouts. Solid cd transport, never once had an Eclipse deck skip, the dsp actually works great and it has audiophile grade build- 24bit dac, best preouts on the market, twin dsp dedicated xchips....yada yada

My last 2 decks before my 8443 was an Alpine 7998, copper plated 7949 and x911...none of the compare sonically IMO. All skipped...lol

 

[aja1732]

I have the same problem with my Pioneer 7700, so annoying.....

 

[demon2091tb]

So looks like i'm leaning more towards the 8053 now, since a few reported issues with the 8443, but still not sure.

 

[dodgerblue]

can we start sending our decks to npdang for testing and reports?!!! haa j-k .seems from all the amps ive tried in my car with my 8053,hmmm i can count 9 diff. ones at the top of my head- the amps with longer turn on times had no on-off pops and only had 2 with that problem.i also ran a new larger ga ground to a diff piont near the kick panel-near factory grnd. instead of using the harness gnd.has it helped, i dont know ,but rather do than to scramble later

 

[racerraul]

A word of caution about DACs...

Unless you have a service manual specifying the type, brand & implementation, it is hardly wise to judge HU by the type of DAC specified on the box.

There are advantages & disadvantages between multi-bit & single-bit DACs. There is a good thread explaining the details over at ECA's technical clininc that Werewolf himself wrote... it's worth everyones time to go check out...

Since 1990 I have owned Alpines, Clarions, Denons, Eclipses, Pioneers, Kenwoods HU's & Changers... I have gotten all of them to skip & all of them not to skip... I do have my favorites, but I couldn't tell you which had an obvious advantage in SQ since every system was different...

I don't think a reputable source could tell you either... unless a controlled test was performed.

 

[dodgerblue]

good piont, when a product performs well its a function of the whole not just a highlighted feature like 24 bit dacs ,the amount of clean output voltage and features overall have more of an effect on perf. my 8053 sounds better to me than the alpine 7897 that i had prior,dont know why, but overall the eclipse has bit higher output volt.more procc. features and 24 bit dacs .i would not attribute this to be a function of the dacs alone but overall features. i still wish i would have kept that alpine though-cool good sounding deck!

 

[demon2091tb]

So what does the Higher Bit DAC actually do to the sound, that would make it a better feature than a single or multiple single bit DAC's. As you said that the addition of a good install or features of the install just play a part in the sound of the HU as well as goals of the complete system, is there anyway to judge how much of a difference individual HU's have differences in sound, when there is no control or constant to compair them too? So how can you really get any idea about how one HU sounds compaired to another and which one would be best for me and my install?

 

[racerraul]

Several good questions...

So what does the Higher Bit DAC actually do to the sound, that would make it a better feature than a single or multiple single bit DAC's.

This one deserves a good explanation of how DAC's work. I highly recommend that you visit the Technical Clinic to read more in depth about them... In it you will understand more or less how they work, & how important several aspects of the implementation of DACs are.

As you said that the addition of a good install or features of the install just play a part in the sound of the HU as well as goals of the complete system, is there anyway to judge how much of a difference individual HU's have differences in sound, when there is no control or constant to compair them too? So how can you really get any idea about how one HU sounds compaired to another and which one would be best for me and my install?

This one I don't really know how to answer. Part of the reason why I can't is because I am very open minded to the new products that come out & try my best to not be biased towards ANY brands. Hard to do.

Nevertheless, I keep my eyes open to what REAL problems people are having with certain products. You can pretty much tell the BS from real stuff. Normally BS will be a general overall statement in favor or against a particular brand vs a specific model specified... know what I mean?

With that said, choose according to your needs. Once you find something you would like to try, research ask around as we are doing here. The fact is that Alpine, Eclipse, Kenwood, Pioneer, Clarion all make excellent products. Certain models fit people's needs better.

I don't worry too much about SQ claims, because those are opinnions & it makes no sense for me to choose based on what someone thinks sounds better because quite frankly, that is their opinnion & I seriously think that if there was some truth to all the SQ claims, it would be common knowledge by now & we wouldn't be having this conversation...

 

[hcbassplay]

I'm having a good time with my 8454, I picked it up from newtitan I think for $265. I would say it has better SQ than my P860mp, but not because of the actual sound quality, just the eq seems to work a little better in my system. That said I really liked my P860mp as well. If you can find either I'd jump on it...

 

[GMo]

The fact is that Alpine, Eclipse, Kenwood, Pioneer, Clarion all make excellent products. Certain models fit people's needs better.

I don't worry too much about SQ claims, because those are opinnions & it makes no sense for me to choose based on what someone thinks sounds better because quite frankly, that is their opinnion & I seriously think that if there was some truth to all the SQ claims, it would be common knowledge by now & we wouldn't be having this conversation...

That's a good answer.

 

[demon2091tb]

I went on over to ECA and read some about the DACs and whatnot and it all makes no sense to me whatsoever, but still a good read. I don't really know what questions to ask as far as from what i read but i do know that i do want a flexable crossover/EQ abilities, with some time alignment, and a very nice output voltage, right now i have everything but my tempest installed and with my old RF HE2 the car sounds awesome, needs a flat response to get everything to sound right, but as of now its pretty impressive IMO for a first time installer and whatnot. For a daily driver, possible few SQ competitions if i can ever find any what would be an ideal number of EQ bands? I would think a good 10 or so would work pretty good for my install.

What are some of the Alpine, Kenwood, Clarion, and Pioneer HU's to look at that would be used in the 250-300 range, i already have a good idea on the Eclipses, just would like a few model numbers to specifically look at.

Again thanks everyone for making this thread worthwhile.

 

[demon2091tb]

Well i've decide on the 8053 so the Hunt pursues for one that is of Excelent or BNIB quality.