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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
To be honest I have never really heard an install that has made a quantum leap in regards of return (when comparing apples and apples). I've heard improvements in imaging and better dynamics but nothing that caused a system to go from average to oustanding. The more I listen to systems the more I have found that ence time spent tuning can make a good system into a great one. Im sure at the competition level everyone is so good that even a minute difference makes a big deal so the install does become critical..For a typical audiophile Im starting to believe that difference is minimal ....Im sure there are those that will disagree with me so give me some numbers or something to set me straight...
 

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Well the difference is only minimal if you are talking about a solid install in the first place against once that's nearly the same but slightly tweaked. Install overall makes a big difference.

I'd say a solid install is most important then system tuning being second. For instance, you can't tune a leaky half assed midbass install to sound good, but you can install speakers in a such a way that they could sound pretty good with very little tuning.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well the difference is only minimal if you are talking about a solid install in the first place against once that's nearly the same but slightly tweaked. Install overall makes a big difference.

I'd say a solid install is most important then system tuning being second. For instance, you can't tune a leaky half assed midbass install to sound good, but you can install speakers in a such a way that they could sound pretty good with very little tuning.

Thats a good point..I am really comparing two good installs with appropriate materials and appropriate sound deadening...99% of the installs I see are door mounted mids and tweets...Once you sound deaden and use the appropriate materials to mount I have found adjusting angle and even moving drivers to the kicks to be of little value...
 

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Well the difference is only minimal if you are talking about a solid install in the first place against once that's nearly the same but slightly tweaked. Install overall makes a big difference.

I'd say a solid install is most important then system tuning being second. For instance, you can't tune a leaky half assed midbass install to sound good, but you can install speakers in a such a way that they could sound pretty good with very little tuning.
Instead of wasting all those words you should have just shown him your pitcher sub enclosure. :D
 

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Once you have a reasonably competant installation, I agree with you completely. The differences are minimal, but for instance, having a three way with mids and tweeters up high can raise the stage dramatically over a kick install, etc.

Once you have even a halfway decent installation, tuning is everything.

You can make up for less-than-ideal speaker placement with good tuning and you can tame bad drivers with good tuning--nothing can fix bad tuning though. I don't care what you do.
 

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In my opinion, the biggest factor of the install that makes it so important is the sound deadening. If you take the time to do this right, a lot of the other install related obstacles can be dealt with. Speakers can be tuned to compensate for on-off axis, crossovers and eq's can be adjusted for staging and time alignment helps a lot. But regardless of your tuning capabilities, the only fix for lack of sound deadening is to add sound deadening materials.
 

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99% of the installs I see are door mounted mids and tweets...Once you sound deaden and use the appropriate materials to mount I have found adjusting angle and even moving drivers to the kicks to be of little value...
:surprised: Door mounts vs kicks and you say little value? Not sure about that...


Once you have even a halfway decent installation, tuning is everything.

You can make up for less-than-ideal speaker placement with good tuning and you can tame bad drivers with good tuning--nothing can fix bad tuning though. I don't care what you do.
Tuning can never fix a half-assed install period. A half-way decent install can only ever sound half-decent.

I'm seriously surprised to hear comments like these on a respected forum going unanswered - maybe no-one can be bothered considering such statements :confused:

I have just spent an entire weekend adding midbass to my car directly via improved install. No amount of tuning would have ever gave me that - tried it so I know.

so, half-baked comments IMHO.

No, not trying to make friends but equally not trying to make enemies - just saying what I think ;)
 

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I agree with the above statement.

Kicks vs. dash not buying that unless it is a fully modded dash. The dash can lead to horrible reflections. The dash can be a a great place for drivers if done properly but most people do not do it properly.

Door mounted for other than midbass is not optimal period. The PLDs are horrible even with T/A.

With a full dash mod. or kicks the PLDs can be delt with and completed with T/A.

Draw back to kick can be the rainbow effect and low stage that can be delt with by adding a set of tweeters in the a-pillars x-over very high with low power.

You cannot EQ out a bad install or subpar install.IMO

For the DIYer most of us are not going to rebuild an entire dash. However, if you get a chance to listen to cars like Steve Heads, Mark Eldridge, Chris Pate, Matt R. ect. you will see how big of a difference an install can make. Everything is about compromises and most of DIYers are only whiling to compromise so much, we still have to drive are cars everyday.
 

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Tuning can never fix a half-assed install period. A half-way decent install can only ever sound half-decent.

I'm seriously surprised to hear comments like these on a respected forum going unanswered - maybe no-one can be bothered considering such statements :confused:

I have just spent an entire weekend adding midbass to my car directly via improved install. No amount of tuning would have ever gave me that - tried it so I know.

so, half-baked comments IMHO.

No, not trying to make friends but equally not trying to make enemies - just saying what I think ;)
Define half-assed install. Tuning can fix a lot. Tuning can turn even a half-way decent system into magic. By tuning I mean: EQ, T/A, phase, level, etc. Are you saying you prefer kicks? You certainly don't need kick panels for a good system. I argue the opposite. I don't like them actually. No kick panel will give you the proper volume for a sealed midbass--at least not one I have seen. This is going way beyond half-assed, but a sealed door enclosure beats a kick every time IMO.

Deadening is the most overrated component I've seen. I've done it yes. I've probably done more deadening to my doors than most people on here, but it was the last step in my process and I was pretty damn happy with my system before then. Yeah, I'm not trying to make friends either. Midbass is important, yes, but it's only one component. To me it is the second least important behind the sub stage. Tweeters and mids are far more important to me. I can live with a midbass in a stock door panel. I cannot stand a bad tweeter.

P.S. I can see this digressing into a dumb argument, and that's what it would be. The fact is that everything is important. You can't skip one step and expect a great system. You can get by with less, but good systems need it all. It's pointless to debate anything else.
 

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Define half-assed install.

An install chucked into the doors...

Tuning can fix a lot. Tuning can turn even a half-way decent system into magic. By tuning I mean: EQ, T/A, phase, level, etc. Are you saying you prefer kicks? You certainly don't need kick panels for a good system. I argue the opposite. I don't like them actually. No kick panel will give you the proper volume for a sealed midbass--at least not one I have seen. This is going way beyond half-assed, but a sealed door enclosure beats a kick every time IMO.

Midbass in kicks vs midbass in doors all depends on the lengths you go to to get the speaker to actually play the 'mid' in the 'midbass'... this is different from the lengths you need to go to to get good bass.

Deadening is the most overrated component I've seen.

Any speaker that plays and creates a movement of its baffle or enclosure can not play to its best. So, strengthening then sound-deadening or adding mass are critical if you want a speaker to play what you ask it to play.

I've done it yes. I've probably done more deadening to my doors than most people on here, but it was the last step in my process and I was pretty damn happy with my system before then.

You have a very rigid, well made car then Sir!

Yeah, I'm not trying to make friends either. Midbass is important, yes, but it's only one component. To me it is the second least important behind the sub stage. Tweeters and mids are far more important to me. I can live with a midbass in a stock door panel. I cannot stand a bad tweeter.

When you actually listen to music, your telling me that the overall experience is not as critical as the higher frequencies?

Sorry to state the obvious but, the range of frequencies added together for me is what makes music - if one part is lacking then the music doesn't sound right...
 
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