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Still charges fine with Apple and aftermarket Digital Camera Kits that are designed to charge.
I suspect it’s some form of digital signing of the device on the other end of the cck3, some DACs don’t work with the cck3 also, something Apple did with the firmware and the way the device signs through the camera kit I suspect, so it’s kind of half a dozen of one and six of the other I suspect, it’s not a happy marriage sadly, and I can’t see Apple just swapping the way devices work together anytime soon

it’s also why some devices don’t work with usb audio player pro also I suspect, I couldn’t get usb audio player pro to work with the hec so tested back to back with the horrid android audio layer upsampling stuff, but it may also have been my hub or device... but the topping from the Android/hub combo had no issues and worked with uapp, nor does it from my iPhone, hence my suspicion it’s a signing issue between the hec and the idevice/cck3, but I don’t know enough to tell you anymore or how to solve it sadly
 

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I've contributed a few times to this and other threads about iPhones and my iPod touch not charging through the Apple camera kit 3 when plugged into the Helix USB audio board.

As mentioned above, I believe it is 100% caused by the Helix USB adaptor. This is either because it doesn't give a signal or code or whatever that Apple like, or the camera kit can't read said code or instruction from Helix.

The camera kit works with both the ipod and iphone on other systems for USB audio and charging, just not Helix. The Helix and both apple devices work through USB audio and charge the devices when using a 3rd party camera kit, and the Apple software version on the devices make no difference.

I've spoke to Helix a few times and it seems they are adamant it is an Apple problem. Not tried speaking to the techs at Apple, but would be good to know what the Apple hardware is looking for to allow the Helix to be used. So I can see why Helix say it is Apple but they don't seem to want to find out 'why' their kit isn't working.

Shame really but ultimately doesn't stop anybody using USB audio and charging a device, it just means you have to use a none Apple camera kit.

I've now got a new car and new Iphone 11 pro, so will be trying again once the install is in within a month or so, but I don't expect any differences.
 

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Unfortunately there is nothing that Audiotec Fischer can do to change how the iPhone works aside from explain to them that they are upsetting customers because of their choices.

They are working on better solutions anyway and we should see the results soon.
Reading another thread on here it seems at one time Apple allowed any device to work with the camera kit, and then did an upgrade so that only Apple approved devices will work and charge with the camera kit, so helix need to get the usb hec approved so it signs correctly and digitally and all will be good

the guy in the thread in question bought a brand new cck3 and it worked fine until it updated it’s software et voila... it didn’t work once more, that’s why after market ones do work, because it’s the camera connection kit that is the issue and signing via usb which is pretty much what I figured, I just didn’t know why until he said that... whether it was phone or cck3... his result confirms it’s the cck3
 

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Not sure why it’s the case but my iPhone still exhibits the same behavior as I’ve reported before:

Apple CCK + Helix USB HEC = charging only when phone already has 50%+ battery. 49% or lower then the phone does not charge.

Apple CCK + my USB to Coax converter > Helix = charging at all times despite battery level.

Apple CCK + other DAC’s > Helix = charge just fine at all times (according to user reports)

The discrepancies only occur when USB HEC is attached to CCK, so it appears to be an issue with the HEC USB protocol and the Apple CCK supporting it.
 

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this is the thread where someone mentions the digital signing 👍🏼
 

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IS this the Topping D10 that keeps getting referred to on the forum? Are people running this in their cars in between their Phone/Digital Source and their DSP's??? Sorry if its aN00b question, i'm just trying to keep up

Thanks in advance
 

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IS this the Topping D10 that keeps getting referred to on the forum? Are people running this in their cars in between their Phone/Digital Source and their DSP's??? Sorry if its aN00b question, i'm just trying to keep up

Thanks in advance
yes I believe so.

I use a smaller unit that works very well to get from USB to toslink and doesn’t need seperate power encore mdsd which is a nuprimehttps://www.headfonia.com/nuprime-hi-mdac-review/2/

iPhone 7 , camera kit, encore mdsd, glass optical cable, into audison bit 10
 

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yes I believe so.

I use a smaller unit that works very well to get from USB to toslink and doesn’t need seperate power encore mdsd which is a nuprimehttps://www.headfonia.com/nuprime-hi-mdac-review/2/

iPhone 7 , camera kit, encore mdsd, glass optical cable, into audison bit 10
How are you getting optical out of either of those all I'm seeing is 3.5mm headphone out?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I use a smaller unit that works very well to get from USB to toslink and doesn’t need separate power encore mdsd which is a nuprime NuPrime Hi-mDAC Review - Headfonia Reviews
@juba Thanks for an alternative, at first glance it is very interesting and i will dig more into the article you provided...

I've finally come to the conclusion that currently the HEC USB card is not a good option for me due the to aptX codec. And since the COAX input tops out at 192 kHz this opens the door for a lot of options
 

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yes I believe so.

I use a smaller unit that works very well to get from USB to toslink and doesn’t need seperate power encore mdsd which is a nuprimehttps://www.headfonia.com/nuprime-hi-mdac-review/2/

iPhone 7 , camera kit, encore mdsd, glass optical cable, into audison bit 10
The topping doesn’t need an extra power I should add... and that encore measures god damn awfully on the analogue output... bottom tier on audio science review... I wouldn’t ever put it’s analogue stages in the same boat as a topping D10 which is in the third tier... as they don’t test digital outputs it’s not really fit to compare but if the dac section is that much worse I’m not sure why the digital output circuitry will be as good either...

 

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@juba Thanks for an alternative, at first glance it is very interesting and i will dig more into the article you provided...

I've finally come to the conclusion that currently the HEC USB card is not a good option for me due the to aptX codec. And since the COAX input tops out at 192 kHz this opens the door for a lot of options
Aptx bluetooth is good... a topping D10 via optical will show it up, better staging, stage height, stage and image definition will be next level compared 👍🏼
 

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Aptx bluetooth is good... a topping D10 via optical will show it up, better staging, stage height, stage and image definition will be next level compared 👍🏼
I thought the aptX is 44 kHz and the aptXHD is 48 kHz, which is CD quality sound but a lot of Streaming services now a days (Tidal, Amazon HD, ect...) are streaming higher @ 192 kHz and even SiriusXM streams at 128/160/320 now.
My thinking, and i could be totally off base, is i would rather use COAX (up to 192 on my COAX input) and this would allow me a wider range of signal quality where the BT HEC caps me at 48k and i think general consensus on the boards is that the USB HEC is no bueno also :(.

So now i am trying to find a balance between: Over All SQ; Amount of Devices needed and install time; Cost....

Current contemplation has been
  1. Fiio M11 Pro tucked away and connected to the DSP via COAX and controlling via Phone
  2. Phone as source connected to xxx and then to the DSP
 

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As much as I want to believe im wrong, I can't say ive heard any significant difference between BT vs DSD on my Sony rsx gs9.
 

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I thought the aptX is 44 kHz and the aptXHD is 48 kHz, which is CD quality sound but a lot of Streaming services now a days (Tidal, Amazon HD, ect...) are streaming higher @ 192 kHz and even SiriusXM streams at 128/160/320 now.
My thinking, and i could be totally off base, is i would rather use COAX (up to 192 on my COAX input) and this would allow me a wider range of signal quality where the BT HEC caps me at 48k and i think general consensus on the boards is that the USB HEC is no bueno also :(.

So now i am trying to find a balance between: Over All SQ; Amount of Devices needed and install time; Cost....

Current contemplation has been
  1. Fiio M11 Pro tucked away and connected to the DSP via COAX and controlling via Phone
  2. Phone as source connected to xxx and then to the DSP
You do realise you don’t get any more detail with 96khz or wherever... it just increases the frequency it can play too... and unless you’re a dog you won’t hear it...

As for aptx and aptx hd... they are supposed to ‘sound like’ cd quality... not be cd quality... that’s from there own documentation

even bt 5.0 doesn’t stream cd quality... the improvements over 4.0 were with regard to range and reliability of connection rather than bandwidth improvements

add to this a bt hec is by 3.0 and doesn’t support aptx hd either 😒

a topping d10 is the best setup I’ve had in my car from an iPhone... android can be an odd setup with DACs, basically you won’t get bit perfect output from android unless you use usb audio player pro... or interestingly a hiby R6 whoch hiby have rewritten the android audio layer to not upsample everything... with any app installed... so you can use downloaded tidal files in the tidal app and get bit perfect... (you can’t use usb audio player pro to get bit perfect with downloaded tidal files 😒)

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B66D5731-A489-4992-A791-E17DD4707C00.png
 

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The topping doesn’t need an extra power I should add... and that encore measures god damn awfully on the analogue output... bottom tier on audio science review... I wouldn’t ever put it’s analogue stages in the same boat as a topping D10 which is in the third tier... as they don’t test digital outputs it’s not really fit to compare but if the dac section is that much worse I’m not sure why the digital output circuitry will be as good either...

my error I assumed (argh) that topping would need power as quite hard for units to run below what cell phones can put out.

From a technical standpoint there are desktop/larger products that will drive lower impedance loads better yes, so it comes back to interpretation of results etc.

your conclusion of “aweful “ measurements does not align amirm s conclusion of “At that price it is pretty good.”

I predominantly use as a USB to optical bridge and I cannot find fault with its subjective performance In that function - I was worried about digital glare or jitter and/or hardness. I use it in my home system which is pretty revealing - pass labs scan speak etc. I have owned theta, tag McLaren, Meitner dacs

as a Dac it is subjectively reasonable sounding unit as other reviews attest.

I would use again and will continue to recommend others to should the topping option be too bulky.
 

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Hi All,

Side question to this, as I'm wondering about going a similar route. I currently use iPhone 11- lighting to USB to Audi MMI - to Mobridge optical to Helix DSP Pro. I was leaning towards going USB direct to Helix (or now, after reading this thread, maybe with the D10), but am wondering if there'd actually be any advantage to doing this? USB and MMI is quirky as, for example, when connecting it starts playing the first song in my music library every single time...was wondering if I could avoid that. But - how would going this revised route work with head unit (MMI) integration / switching between phone as source and radio for example?
Thanks for any pointers..currently suffering a brain cramp trying to make sense of it :)

-Per
 

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Don’t know what you’d gain going that route. Plus using the D10 instead of your current setup you would need either a Helix URC3 or a Director for digital volume. Have you tried updating your MMI?
 

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Thanks, Dave. I've tried some MMI updates in the past to no avail (need to look into it again to see if there are updates).
 
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