DiyMobileAudio.com Car Stereo Forum banner

1 - 3 of 3 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've tuned using Jazzi's EXCEL speaker curve along with REW and the fuzzy instructions in his thread, over
the past view years... and have never been satisfied with the results. I have done the Factory Default reset on
the Helix DSP Pro and started from scratch over and over and over.... I would try a different house curve and
different crossover settings. I've used every house curve option in the Excel along with a bunch of custom
curves.. I don't know.. about 100 different crossover settings .. I've read a hundred threads on how to
determine the best crossover settings for my 3-way system. I've used a multitude of different mid-range &
tweeter speakers (all high end expensive speakers), ie, ScanSpeak, AudioFrog, Hybrid, S.I., Illusion, and other
speakers. Many of my tuning attempts I had the mid-range speakers in the factory dash location, and the
tweeter located in my A-pillars.

My disappointment is not with the Bass response after tuning using the Excel, but the Mid-Range & Tweet's
are always lacking.... Every time the results would be 25% of music sounded really really super good, 55%
percent sounded sorta okay, but nothing special, and 20% percent sounded like shit.. that means that 75%
percent of the music I listened to, didn't sound like the multi-thousand dollar system I have should sound....I'm
reasonable... I think 90% percent of anything I push thru my system should sound really good, not just 25%
percent.

Most of my disappointment is with how my mid-range and tweeter's sound when I was done with the tuning...
always harsh, thin, dull, shallow, narrow, and centered... its like I EQ'ed all the Dynamics, Depth and sparkle
out of my system....It sounded so Mono and Lifeless.. with my entire system playing, sounded like a single very
small cheap speaker in the middle of my dash, located one inch under my rear-view mirror...

So, I moved my Mid-range's out of the factory dash location, and punched a whole in my door panels, and put
the GB25's as high and forward as possible in the door panels. I've tried a few different tunes, and I'm still
having the same tuning problems...harsh, thin, dull, shallow, narrow, mono, no sparkle, centered, no
Dynamics or Depth when using Jazzi's Excel speaker curves......

My head Unit has 3 tuning options, Bass, Mid, and Treble. I need to increase the treble up just to get some
sparkle out of my system... it sounds so dull and lifeless if I don't increase the treble, but pretty good base, so I
increase the treble.. and that will help a little...

So, I have GB10's in my A-Pillar, and GB25's in my door panels, (have been installed for a time now) so I
decided to try the Audio-Frog tune technique for the 1st time... I did a rough tune, where you tune all left side
speakers to a overall-curve, then tune all right side speakers to the same over-all curve, then match left & right
to each other. So Now I have a very rough tune, just EQ'ed down the major peeks, and a little boosting for the
valleys...and I have each side sorta close to each other.....I only needed a 3 or 4 PEQ adjustments to each the
Mid-Range and about the same number of PEQ adjustment on the Tweets, (Compared to using around 25 PEQ
Adjustments per speaker when using Jazzi Exel & REW autoEq....

When I did this.. WOW... my Mid-Range and Tweets really came alive... Most of the Harshness was gone, it is
so much more Dynamic, has depth and for the first time has some sparkle in the Mid-Range and lower Tweet
freq's, and a much wider stage. I don't need to turn up the treble on head unit,,,,but now the bass is week... the
Mid-Range and tweets are stronger than the Mid-bass & Subs even though its pretty much tuned to the
overall-curve.....

So now the system sounds so much better tonally, but the stage seems to be pulling to the right (drivers side),
very obvious pull to the right with voices and drum tom toms. I muted the Mid-Base & Subs, and listened
to just the Mid-Range and Tweets playing.. they sound really good together, the image is centered, has good
tone, and I can pick out the stage. When I un-mute the Mid-Base, is when the pull to the right occurs. I
lowered the gain on the Right Mid-Base in an attempt to get voice centered, but had to lower -10DB, and well
doing that centered the voices, but all the other Mid-Base freq's where then pulling left.........

I'm trying to figure out how to tune the Mid-Base because the Audio-Frog tune technique doesn't seem to work
well for them. I plan to use Jazzi Execl & REW-AutoEq and tune the Mid-Base & Subs, but I'm not sure if
tuning that way will cause Phase problems ... any advise you can give me is appreciated !

I have not done any fine tuning yet, do you think mixing these to tuning technique cause me problems ??

I Has anybody else on this Forum tried both tuning techniques,..... which one worked best for you?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,290 Posts
I've tuned using Jazzi's EXCEL speaker curve along with REW and the fuzzy instructions in his thread, over
the past view years... and have never been satisfied with the results. I have done the Factory Default reset on
the Helix DSP Pro and started from scratch over and over and over.... I would try a different house curve and
different crossover settings. I've used every house curve option in the Excel along with a bunch of custom
curves.. I don't know.. about 100 different crossover settings .. I've read a hundred threads on how to
determine the best crossover settings for my 3-way system. I've used a multitude of different mid-range &
tweeter speakers (all high end expensive speakers), ie, ScanSpeak, AudioFrog, Hybrid, S.I., Illusion, and other
speakers. Many of my tuning attempts I had the mid-range speakers in the factory dash location, and the
tweeter located in my A-pillars.

My disappointment is not with the Bass response after tuning using the Excel, but the Mid-Range & Tweet's
are always lacking.... Every time the results would be 25% of music sounded really really super good, 55%
percent sounded sorta okay, but nothing special, and 20% percent sounded like shit.. that means that 75%
percent of the music I listened to, didn't sound like the multi-thousand dollar system I have should sound....I'm
reasonable... I think 90% percent of anything I push thru my system should sound really good, not just 25%
percent.

Most of my disappointment is with how my mid-range and tweeter's sound when I was done with the tuning...
always harsh, thin, dull, shallow, narrow, and centered... its like I EQ'ed all the Dynamics, Depth and sparkle
out of my system....It sounded so Mono and Lifeless.. with my entire system playing, sounded like a single very
small cheap speaker in the middle of my dash, located one inch under my rear-view mirror...

So, I moved my Mid-range's out of the factory dash location, and punched a whole in my door panels, and put
the GB25's as high and forward as possible in the door panels. I've tried a few different tunes, and I'm still
having the same tuning problems...harsh, thin, dull, shallow, narrow, mono, no sparkle, centered, no
Dynamics or Depth when using Jazzi's Excel speaker curves......

My head Unit has 3 tuning options, Bass, Mid, and Treble. I need to increase the treble up just to get some
sparkle out of my system... it sounds so dull and lifeless if I don't increase the treble, but pretty good base, so I
increase the treble.. and that will help a little...

So, I have GB10's in my A-Pillar, and GB25's in my door panels, (have been installed for a time now) so I
decided to try the Audio-Frog tune technique for the 1st time... I did a rough tune, where you tune all left side
speakers to a overall-curve, then tune all right side speakers to the same over-all curve, then match left & right
to each other. So Now I have a very rough tune, just EQ'ed down the major peeks, and a little boosting for the
valleys...and I have each side sorta close to each other.....I only needed a 3 or 4 PEQ adjustments to each the
Mid-Range and about the same number of PEQ adjustment on the Tweets, (Compared to using around 25 PEQ
Adjustments per speaker when using Jazzi Exel & REW autoEq....

When I did this.. WOW... my Mid-Range and Tweets really came alive... Most of the Harshness was gone, it is
so much more Dynamic, has depth and for the first time has some sparkle in the Mid-Range and lower Tweet
freq's, and a much wider stage. I don't need to turn up the treble on head unit,,,,but now the bass is week... the
Mid-Range and tweets are stronger than the Mid-bass & Subs even though its pretty much tuned to the
overall-curve.....

So now the system sounds so much better tonally, but the stage seems to be pulling to the right (drivers side),
very obvious pull to the right with voices and drum tom toms. I muted the Mid-Base & Subs, and listened
to just the Mid-Range and Tweets playing.. they sound really good together, the image is centered, has good
tone, and I can pick out the stage. When I un-mute the Mid-Base, is when the pull to the right occurs. I
lowered the gain on the Right Mid-Base in an attempt to get voice centered, but had to lower -10DB, and well
doing that centered the voices, but all the other Mid-Base freq's where then pulling left.........

I'm trying to figure out how to tune the Mid-Base because the Audio-Frog tune technique doesn't seem to work
well for them. I plan to use Jazzi Execl & REW-AutoEq and tune the Mid-Base & Subs, but I'm not sure if
tuning that way will cause Phase problems ... any advise you can give me is appreciated !

I have not done any fine tuning yet, do you think mixing these to tuning technique cause me problems ??

I Has anybody else on this Forum tried both tuning techniques,..... which one worked best for you?
You made me laugh with the percentages, they're pretty much in line with the percentages of really good, mediocre, and bad recordings.
As for the tuning, those two procedures are not mutually exclusive, you can use REW to do the AudioFrog method.
It sounds like you're suffering from too much eq, REW auto-eq will often leave some peaks and dips, you should too. Some of the crazy variations in frequency response are phase related nulls that are inaudible and unfixable, it's just a problem with the car's "room response". Don't try to fix everything.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
If none of the premade house curves work for you, just make up your own.
Try different premade curves and note what you like about them and what is wrong with them in your car.

F.e.:
  • Full Whitledge: too much base, good mid, not enough highs
  • half whitledge: not enough base, great mids, bit too much highs
  • MS-8: little bit more bass would be great, great lower midrange, too bright between 1-2 kHz
Then just combine the best into one custom curve and try adjusting your system to the custom curve.
And i second that comment about the quality of todays records. The better your system is dialed in, the worse this gets.
 
1 - 3 of 3 Posts
Top