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So, when the folks in here are talking about, "detail" they are talking about quiet, subtle sounds that are being drowned out by the road noise and engine noise during driving. The only know way to recover these lost details in the sound and make them audible is to lower those noises as far as possible. Even 1db of noise reduced will be perceived as a gain in detail and quality to a finicky listener. I plan to fight for every decibel I can get back! :mad:
Yes, well, car audio is like that. ;) It's a crappy reflective environment with a ton of noise. Even with a year spent deadening with thousands of dollars of parts and materials, you'll still have at least 60 db of noise at cruise. A pair of $200 in-ear monitors will sound infinitely better and will not damage your ears. So...with car audio...turn it up, get (some of) the details, live fast, die young. :) Or don't, and you will not hear as much on the quieter passages.

But lack of details is not really the issue, as far as speaker selection. You don't get more or less detail out of different speakers; you get more or less resonances and distortion. MS8 takes care of the former, but not the latter.
 

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It sounds like the MS-8 is a Magic Box; I suspect that's why it hasn't made to market yet.


I don't want to rain on the parade, but this unit was supposedly working very well a couple of years ago.
As far as I can tell, the delay is due to software rewrites and integration. Not problems with the algorithms themselves. So, I would say, the glass is half full.

If it really was magic, it could've been magically integrated and we'd already have them. :)
 

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Excellent point... simplicity rules again... :bowdown:

I can see having the ability to use the iPhone as a remote, but I don't see the need for the PC. The menu is simple to use and would just be replicated on the PC, possibly with a colorful GUI. Why is a PC tool an attractive option?
 

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It sounds like the MS-8 is a Magic Box; I suspect that's why it hasn't made to market yet.


I don't want to rain on the parade, but this unit was supposedly working very well a couple of years ago.
Get out! We want to stay in pretend land for a while and you are ruining everything! :mad:
 

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my understanding is more expensive drivers reveal subtle differences, and subtlety can be enjoyed in a quiet room, but as you said, in a moving vehicle with 70db noise floor, that subtlety is impossible to hear.




additional cost reveals additional subtlety, not necessarily additional volume.

More expensive drivers just cost more, unless they, in fact are better. Better means lower distortion and flatter frequency response (irregular frequency response can be thought of as a kind of distortion. Plenty of expensive drivers are just some "artist's" idea of appropriate compromise between accptable and non acceptable forms of distortion. Paying more doesn't mean you get more.
 

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Guys,
Several of you have sent me email and PMs. Please be patient and I'll respond to all of them I'm getting killed preparing reports and presentations.

No ETA yet. I'll provide one just as soon as I have a reliable date.
 

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More expensive drivers just cost more, unless they, in fact are better. Better means lower distortion and flatter frequency response (irregular frequency response can be thought of as a kind of distortion. Plenty of expensive drivers are just some "artist's" idea of appropriate compromise between accptable and non acceptable forms of distortion. Paying more doesn't mean you get more.
Sometimes more is better. :p
 

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Andy,

Without having to re-read the entire thread, I have two questions:

1. Are there still going to be aux inputs?
2. Will there be the ability to eq the inputs?
 

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Sometimes more is better. :p
Yeah but sometimes more is just more. Like more money but not more performance. Thanks to this site, People have been educated n the law of diminishing returns. Give me a speaker that is EQ friendly!! Who cares about a name brand.
 

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Andy,

Without having to re-read the entire thread, I have two questions:

1. Are there still going to be aux inputs?
2. Will there be the ability to eq the inputs?
Yes, there are Aux inputs. No, there's no EQ for the inputs. Why would you need EQ for the inputs? If it's to make up for supposedly bad frrequency response of a media player, just EQ the output and save it as a favorite.
 

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Is there any plan to have clipping indicators?
That is a very valid question.

However, avoiding distortion is very likely going to fall on the end-user as the processor likely won't be applying limiting/compression. I think this is why a good deal of A/D digital converters are greater than 16-bit in order to work with a wider dynamic range and hotter signal after processing is done. EQ adjustment can many times stretch the signal out beyond the normal dynamic range, so I would have to think this processor is accomodating that fact.

It would be cool if the touchscreen display could show real time analysis and indicate when a signal is 'too hot', although it's not absolutely necessary.
 

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Well...yes and no. Gain potentiometers, clipping indicators and all things like that are specificaly EXCLUDED from the definition of the product. We don't want users to have to fuss with all of that. Here's how it works, described as simply as I can do it.

If you have speaker level outputs from your radio or factory amp, you connect them to the speaker level input connector. Factory amplifiers (the vast majority of them) us the same kind of output amps, so MS-8's speaker level inputs are designed specifically to work with them with no additional adjustment. The line level inputs are also fixed and designed to work with most head units. Line drivers shouldn't be used--the idea is to make this easy.

The setup CD is not pink noise. It's a specific collection of tones and it's different in the left and right channels. The UN-EQ is designed to look for CORRELATION between the incoming signal and what it's expecting to receive (it knows the signal it's looking for). Linear changes to that signal--like a different frequency, phase or delay allw that correlation and are things that can be fixed. Non linear distortion--like clipping--prevent that correlation. A a bunch of nasty noise will too. No signal will also fail to correlate. Clipping from the head unit will also cause it to fail to correlate. When you're adjusting the volume during setup, the display will tell you whether the signal is too high, too low, too far right or too far left. Once it gives you the OK, then you know the level at which there's clipping--whether that's from the head unit or the inputs of MS-8. You make a note of that level on the head unit and that becomes your new "max volume"--if you're playing a signal with all high bits. For quieter recordings, you can use more volume control. For the most precise playback possible, you'd set the head unit volume there and leave it. Then, you'd use the MS-8's remote control for volume. That isn't necessary, though. You can use the head units volume control all you want, provided you can live with the occasional clipping that may happen if you turn the control up too far.

The benefit here is that you don't have to adjuct a bunch of imprecise potentiometers and the unit can determine the point of clipping regardless of which component is clipping.
 

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Well...yes and no. Gain potentiometers, clipping indicators and all things like that are specificaly EXCLUDED from the definition of the product. We don't want users to have to fuss with all of that. Here's how it works, described as simply as I can do it.

If you have speaker level outputs from your radio or factory amp, you connect them to the speaker level input connector. Factory amplifiers (the vast majority of them) us the same kind of output amps, so MS-8's speaker level inputs are designed specifically to work with them with no additional adjustment. The line level inputs are also fixed and designed to work with most head units. Line drivers shouldn't be used--the idea is to make this easy.

The setup CD is not pink noise. It's a specific collection of tones and it's different in the left and right channels. The UN-EQ is designed to look for CORRELATION between the incoming signal and what it's expecting to receive (it knows the signal it's looking for). Linear changes to that signal--like a different frequency, phase or delay allw that correlation and are things that can be fixed. Non linear distortion--like clipping--prevent that correlation. A a bunch of nasty noise will too. No signal will also fail to correlate. Clipping from the head unit will also cause it to fail to correlate. When you're adjusting the volume during setup, the display will tell you whether the signal is too high, too low, too far right or too far left. Once it gives you the OK, then you know the level at which there's clipping--whether that's from the head unit or the inputs of MS-8. You make a note of that level on the head unit and that becomes your new "max volume"--if you're playing a signal with all high bits. For quieter recordings, you can use more volume control. For the most precise playback possible, you'd set the head unit volume there and leave it. Then, you'd use the MS-8's remote control for volume. That isn't necessary, though. You can use the head units volume control all you want, provided you can live with the occasional clipping that may happen if you turn the control up too far.

The benefit here is that you don't have to adjuct a bunch of imprecise potentiometers and the unit can determine the point of clipping regardless of which component is clipping.
This is good to know. Then, the only thing left to worry about will be whether the amp's gain is set to avoid clipping at max unclipped volume then I'm set. :) I'm really nervous about buying this and putting the tuning in the hands of anything automated. My system sounds pretty much how I want it to, so adding this processor could potentially make things sound worse. But the very precise and broad control over the EQ curve has me convinced that I'll be able to get this to sound perfect with enough effort. The presets on this thing will make things a lot easier. I keep forgetting how many presets we get. The more the better.
 

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Well...yes and no. Gain potentiometers, clipping indicators and all things like that are specificaly EXCLUDED from the definition of the product. We don't want users to have to fuss with all of that. Here's how it works, described as simply as I can do it.

If you have speaker level outputs from your radio or factory amp, you connect them to the speaker level input connector. Factory amplifiers (the vast majority of them) us the same kind of output amps, so MS-8's speaker level inputs are designed specifically to work with them with no additional adjustment. The line level inputs are also fixed and designed to work with most head units. Line drivers shouldn't be used--the idea is to make this easy.

The setup CD is not pink noise. It's a specific collection of tones and it's different in the left and right channels. The UN-EQ is designed to look for CORRELATION between the incoming signal and what it's expecting to receive (it knows the signal it's looking for). Linear changes to that signal--like a different frequency, phase or delay allw that correlation and are things that can be fixed. Non linear distortion--like clipping--prevent that correlation. A a bunch of nasty noise will too. No signal will also fail to correlate. Clipping from the head unit will also cause it to fail to correlate. When you're adjusting the volume during setup, the display will tell you whether the signal is too high, too low, too far right or too far left. Once it gives you the OK, then you know the level at which there's clipping--whether that's from the head unit or the inputs of MS-8. You make a note of that level on the head unit and that becomes your new "max volume"--if you're playing a signal with all high bits. For quieter recordings, you can use more volume control. For the most precise playback possible, you'd set the head unit volume there and leave it. Then, you'd use the MS-8's remote control for volume. That isn't necessary, though. You can use the head units volume control all you want, provided you can live with the occasional clipping that may happen if you turn the control up too far.

The benefit here is that you don't have to adjuct a bunch of imprecise potentiometers and the unit can determine the point of clipping regardless of which component is clipping.
i love it.
 

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Yeah, this sounds so easy, even tspence can set it up. :p
 

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Well...yes and no. Gain potentiometers, clipping indicators and all things like that are specificaly EXCLUDED from the definition of the product. We don't want users to have to fuss with all of that. Here's how it works, described as simply as I can do it.

If you have speaker level outputs from your radio or factory amp, you connect them to the speaker level input connector. Factory amplifiers (the vast majority of them) us the same kind of output amps, so MS-8's speaker level inputs are designed specifically to work with them with no additional adjustment. The line level inputs are also fixed and designed to work with most head units. Line drivers shouldn't be used--the idea is to make this easy.

The setup CD is not pink noise. It's a specific collection of tones and it's different in the left and right channels. The UN-EQ is designed to look for CORRELATION between the incoming signal and what it's expecting to receive (it knows the signal it's looking for). Linear changes to that signal--like a different frequency, phase or delay allw that correlation and are things that can be fixed. Non linear distortion--like clipping--prevent that correlation. A a bunch of nasty noise will too. No signal will also fail to correlate. Clipping from the head unit will also cause it to fail to correlate. When you're adjusting the volume during setup, the display will tell you whether the signal is too high, too low, too far right or too far left. Once it gives you the OK, then you know the level at which there's clipping--whether that's from the head unit or the inputs of MS-8. You make a note of that level on the head unit and that becomes your new "max volume"--if you're playing a signal with all high bits. For quieter recordings, you can use more volume control. For the most precise playback possible, you'd set the head unit volume there and leave it. Then, you'd use the MS-8's remote control for volume. That isn't necessary, though. You can use the head units volume control all you want, provided you can live with the occasional clipping that may happen if you turn the control up too far.

The benefit here is that you don't have to adjuct a bunch of imprecise potentiometers and the unit can determine the point of clipping regardless of which component is clipping.

rasta...
 
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