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I need help fellas.

I finally got around to adding a sub to my newish car. I installed the MS-8 over the summer and it's been running my front stage, rear fill and center. I got the sub and amp hooked up, started tuning and realized I hadn't connected the remote out from the MS-8 to the sub amp. I shut the car off mid tune, hooked up the remote out, and started the car. The Display now shows "Please Wait" and goes blank completely. No backlight, nothing.

The unit started up mid-tune and I kinda completed the acoustic calibration without the display. It sounds like pure dookie, but the unit still responds to remote, volume up and down.

I read that some ms-8 owners had success resoldering the display connector in the ma-8. I disassembled the main unit and the connector seems very well seated, no obvious signs of broken anything. It's fully covered in the white adhesive.

I put it all back together and plugged in the display cord to the unit. I used my DMM in DC mode and can read a voltage across the connector segments (3V, 3V, 5V) on the male end that plugs into the display. I noticed a tiny bit of oxidation on the tip of the male display connector, so I opened up the display and across the little solder mounds I still read 3V, 3V and 5V.

I tried checking all connections, and the unit is powered on, is processing sound and responding to the remote. I tried the reset button, which makes the speakers pop but otherwise seems to do nothing.

Any ideas?
 

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I need help fellas.



I finally got around to adding a sub to my newish car. I installed the MS-8 over the summer and it's been running my front stage, rear fill and center. I got the sub and amp hooked up, started tuning and realized I hadn't connected the remote out from the MS-8 to the sub amp. I shut the car off mid tune, hooked up the remote out, and started the car. The Display now shows "Please Wait" and goes blank completely. No backlight, nothing.



The unit started up mid-tune and I kinda completed the acoustic calibration without the display. It sounds like pure dookie, but the unit still responds to remote, volume up and down.



I read that some ms-8 owners had success resoldering the display connector in the ma-8. I disassembled the main unit and the connector seems very well seated, no obvious signs of broken anything. It's fully covered in the white adhesive.



I put it all back together and plugged in the display cord to the unit. I used my DMM in DC mode and can read a voltage across the connector segments (3V, 3V, 5V) on the male end that plugs into the display. I noticed a tiny bit of oxidation on the tip of the male display connector, so I opened up the display and across the little solder mounds I still read 3V, 3V and 5V.



I tried checking all connections, and the unit is powered on, is processing sound and responding to the remote. I tried the reset button, which makes the speakers pop but otherwise seems to do nothing.



Any ideas?
Edit, fixed it. The unit was responding to the remote so I opened up the manual, found out where Reset Defaults was in the manual, and clicked the arrows until I got it. The unit reset and the display works!

Now, anyone care to share the setup disc audio file, pretty please?

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk
 

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Now, anyone care to share the setup disc audio file, pretty please?
See my sig-block for link (you may need to be on your computer, not TapaTalk).

Click the download symbol near the upper right corner, you don't need a google account or sign-in. Keep as a .wav, do not convert to any compressed / lossy format.

;)
 

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Thank you thank you thank you! It's holiday season come early, my MS-8 is back!

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk
 

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Happy merry christmas and new year to all ....

Pardon me for asking this on your holiday.

I have read this on the MS-8 manual
"NOTE: You can power some of the system's speakers by the MS-8's amplifiers and some by outboard
amplifiers, but you should use only one connection type per output. For example, output channel 1 may use the
MS-8's amplifer OR an outboard amplifier, but not both. Be sure to use the chart above to note which speakers
are connected to which MS-8 channels."

The keyword here is "should", and my question is "can we actually use both ?"

I'm asking because my system uses 2 channels of MS-8 for 3 way front like this:
Code:
[MS-8 ch1]-----(RCA)-----[ext amp 40w]-------------[mid bass]
[MS-8 ch2]-+---(RCA)-----[ext amp 25w]----[XO]+----[mid range]
                                              +----[tweeter]
For more balanced power, I wonder if this configuration would work
Code:
[MS-8 ch1]-----(RCA)-----[ext amp 40w]-------------[mid bass]
[MS-8 ch2]-+---(RCA)-----[ext amp 25w]----[HPF]----[mid range]
           +---(internal amp 18w)---------[LPF]----[tweeter]
Thanks for your thought.
 

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I am gonna have to guess that in this case, the word "should" actually means "MUST" and that perhaps it has something to do with how the MS8 sets its automatic GAIN structure when self tuning.

Of course, it IS possible that doing so might also let the magic smoke out of your amp,

And THAT said, since I have NO factual idea WHAT would happen, I am in to read someone else's answer to your legitimate question, though it kind of feels like Clinton wondering what the word "is" means during his impeachment trial. JK/ LOL
 

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I am gonna have to guess that in this case, the word "should" actually means "MUST" and that perhaps it has something to do with how the MS8 sets its automatic GAIN structure when self tuning.

Of course, it IS possible that doing so might also let the magic smoke out of your amp,

And THAT said, since I have NO factual idea WHAT would happen, I am in to read someone else's answer to your legitimate question, though it kind of feels like Clinton wondering what the word "is" means during his impeachment trial. JK/ LOL
^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^ DO NOT USE HI LEVEL AND RCA ON THE SAME OUTPUT CHANNEL OR U PROBABLY WILL HAVE BLACK SMOKE!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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Bumping an ancient post. I've installed the MS8 into my 3rd BMW. However, I'm missing the calibration CD so I have to skip the input setup which is not recommended if using the OEM HU.

According to Andy, in one of his 5000 posts, skipping the input setup will use the MS8 inputs from line 1 and 2 and "set the filters to unity" which he says means what comes in goes out. The MS8 will shut off the rest of the inputs connected, including the subs. I don't know if this is exactly true or not because the manual states to set the sub speaker outs to inputs 7 & 8. And if you use an aftermarket HU that you can skip the input setup. If skipping only uses line 1 and 2, the MS8 is assuming the aftermarket HU is providing a flat 2-channel signal which I suppose is valid.

From Andy:

Choosing "Skip input setup" connects inputs 1 and 2, (speaker or line level) to the input of the DSP and disconnects the other inputs and skips the input EQ. If you know you have a reasonably flat 2-channel signal, there's no need for input signal "conditioning".
If you skip the input setup, you have to set the gains on your mid bass speaker amp close to 2V. I set them all to 2V but I think it would be best to try to level match the other speakers to your main door speakers by using the gain on the amps. This could be why my mid bass is always lacking because the subs are too loud during acoustic calibration. However, using kaigoss69 method (explained later) solves this problem as well. It's just not as easy to "re-calibrate" trying different settings because you have to adjust gains, switch amp inputs, etc. which is a pain in my case because of where the amps are installed. More on that later.

From what I understand, during the input setup procedure the HU volume is set close to the 2.8v max input of the MS8. The MS8 will then sum all of the inputs to create a flat 2 channel signal (un-eq the source and remove channel delay). Because of this, it's only necessary to hook up enough of the speaker out lines from the HU to provide the full range for left and right (Front L&R) and then the sub or subs on input 7 or 8. It reduces the amount of work the MS8 since it is not processing an additional 4 inputs for rear door and rear deck which should be the same signal coming from the fronts.

From Andy:

"If you're connecting to a factory system that includes a subwoofer and you're connecting the subwoofer output to the input of MS-8, the sub output of the factory system should be connected to MS-8's input 7 or 8. In order for MS-8 to sort out the right and left and mono channels and to remove the factory time alignment, it has to see a high-frequency channel before a low-frequency mono channel as it samples the incoming signals."
So, with MS-8, the analog signal from the source is converted into a digital signal in the unit before anything else happens. The RCAs are fixed input sensitivity and are designed to work with all aftermarket head units without any user intervention. Just plug them in and go. The unit, without EQ, is designed to provide unity gain up to 2.8V, which is plenty. That means if you put 1V in, you get 1V out. If you put 2V in, you get 2V out. If you put 9V in, you'll get 2.8V out but it'll be seriously distorted. When you turn the output of your radio down so that you send 2.8V, you'll get 2.8V that isn't clipped.

Since the MS-8 is designed to provide unity gain, it's sufficient to set the input sensitivity of the amplifiers to the same setting as the output of your head unit for 0dB of gain overlap between MS-8 and your amps). This will ensure no input clipping of your amplifiers and will ensure the least noise possible. Double the input sensitivity will result in an additional 6dB of gain. So, if your head unit is a 4V unit, you can set the input sensitivity of the amps to about 1V, which will give you a total of about 9dB of "overlap". Precision isn't required.

You can determine the point at which your radio outputs about 2.8V by putting the setup disc in your aftermarket radio and running input setup. The point at which you get OK OK OK is the point at which your radio outputs about 2.8V. You can continue to run input setup and MS-8 will Un-EQ and remove any channel delay. If you're using an aftermarket radio, none of that should be necessary so all of the EQ filters will be set to unity. That means what comes in goes out. If you choose "skip input setup", all of the filters will be set to unity.
Back to my concern of skipping the input setup for my BMW HU: The MS8 will assume that I'm providing a flat 2-channel signal while it does the acoustic calibration? What if it's not flat? What about the sub inputs that are supposedly ignored when you skip setup?

Also, I don't have the sub speaker outs going into inputs 7&8 so what was I missing in my previous installs where I could actually run the input setup? I have my front speaker as inputs 1&2 and my subs as 3&4. I also have center on 5 and rear doors on 6&7. Was I okay since the MS8 sampled the high-frequency channels first? I'm concerned that the high-frequency signals after the subs may screw it up. I'm going to switch the subs to be 7&8 anyway. Should I remove the rears and/or center inputs since the front speakers should be sending full range signals?

I found an open box MS8 that's never been installed for sale so I bought it. It was from Canada so no telling how long it will take to get here. I plan to re-calibrate using the CD to see if I can tell a difference. I may have a never used MS8 with an open box for sale soon! (the CD will be copied and stored on my phone, my laptop, my computer, on OneDrive and maybe Google drive, just to be sure).

This is my setup and exactly how I did the kaigoss69 method to calibrate my BMW with a trunk sub (sealed JL 12W3v3.4 directly into the car from the ski port)

Alpine PDX F4 (100 watts per channel) - verified at 121w
Channels 1-2 – Morel Hybrid Ovation II 4 2-Way 4" Component Speakers - passive at 1800Hz
Channels 3-4 – Morel Integra Ovation 4" (2-way) - passive at 4000Hz 6dB/octave with tweeter output jumpers to +3db

Alpine PDX F6 (150 watts per channel)
Channels 1-2 – 8” Morel MW265-4 subs
Channels 3-4 – 12” JL 12W3v3.4 - single

Alpine PDX 4.100 (100 watts per channel) (Amp for rear is probably overkill but it's only money, right?)
Channels 1-2 – Factory 4” with tweeter rear door – running in parallel
Channels 3-4 – Factory 4” with tweeter rear deck – running in parallel

MS8 Output Channels

1 - FL (Hi)
2 - 8" sub left
3 - FR (Hi)
4 - 8" sub right
5 - Center
6 - SL
7 - SR
8 - Not used (skipping 12" sub)

Kaigoss method – calibrated without the 12” sub using the 8” subs as lows. Then split the sub output channels from the MS8 to the 4 channels on the amp and used the amps crossovers.

1. Set amp gains to “Nom” or about 2V for my Alpine amps
2. Turned off amp crossover for 8” subs
3. Skipped input setup
4. Run setup with 2-way front using 8” as subs
a. Sub – 2 subs – 20 Hz sub-sonic, Lo/Hi 150 Hz 24dB/oct
b. Front – 1 way – 150 Hz 24dB/oct
c. Center – 1 way – 150 Hz 24dB/oct
d. Side – 1 way – 200 Hz 24dB/oct
e. Rear – none
5. Run acoustic calibration with MS8 at -35dB
6. Set HP filter on 8” sub amp at 60 Hz,
7. Set LP filter on 12” sub at 60 Hz
8. Split Left 8” sub output (ch2) from the MS8 into channels 1&3 on the sub amp
9. Split Right 8” sub output (ch4) from the MS8 into channels 2&4 on the sub amp
10. Raised the gains on all amps to about .2V except for the 12” sub which I left at “Nom”

Edit: This did not work as I expected. Only one of the under seat subs was firing. During setup, when I tried to select "no sub" and run the front as a 2-way, I could not set a Hi/Lo xover past 100. Does anyone know why??

This sounds better than any other calibration I ever did in my previous BMW installs. Any comments or suggestions are welcomed. I'm curious to see how many MS8 guys are still using the system. It's a shame they stopped producing them. I will attach the 84 page word document that someone created which compiles all of Andy's responses in this 700 page thread. I learned A LOT and my girlfriend thinks I'm a nerd now.

Thanks FordEscape for these links. I now have the WAV file, woohoo!.

Download Links:
PDF compilation of Andy W's posts through 10/26/14 from the MS-8 Mega Thread
MS-8 Setup Track wav File


Anybody have firmware binaries? I don't know if I ever updated my firmware or not.

20200124_162308.jpg 20200124_121245.jpg
 

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Does anyone know if something like the technic PnP is still available so that i can easily install in a BMW in place of the stock amplifier using existing cabling so it can be easily returned to standard?
I would not bother skipping the stock amp because you will have to spend A LOT to get something that will convert the digital signal. Just use the speaker out wires from the amp into the inputs of your MS8. It's not that difficult, really. You can get the schematics of which wires go to each speaker. Just cut them long enough so you can splice back together. You need to slice anyway to connect your speaker wires coming from your amps back into the car. As for input, make sure you put Front L&R on input channel 1&2 and the subs on 7&8. You probably don't need to even connect center or rears to the inputs because they should have the same full range signal as the front speakers. Do you have a sub in the trunk? I just posted an update with exact steps on the kaigoss method for BMWs with 8" subs under the seat.

Wiring Harness-1 copy.jpg Wiring Diagram-l L7.jpg
 

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If it sounds good to you, rock it.

If there is no input correction, it only affects the output if you are missing program content. If it is just an EQ issue, then you might be taking care of that during your acoustic setup anyways. If he two channels you are using is missing program material, like bass completely removed, or highs completely removed, you can't EQ that back. If program material is mixed, like center or left getting steered to that right input, etc, then you'll have an issue.

Basically, you're fine so long as the only thing in left is left, and the only thing in right is right, and the only correction needed is to flatten the signal. The output calibration should be able to compensate (double-EQing for the signal and for the speaker).
 

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Does anyone know if something like the technic PnP is still available so that i can easily install in a BMW in place of the stock amplifier using existing cabling so it can be easily returned to standard?
I doubt you will find anything. It's not that difficult, really. You can get the schematics of which wires go to each speaker. Just cut them long enough so you can splice back together. You need to slice anyway to connect your speaker wires coming from your amps back into the car. As for input, make sure you put Front L&R on input channel 1&2 and the subs on 7&8. You probably don't need to even connect center or rears to the inputs because they should have the same full range signal as the front speakers. Do you have a sub in the trunk? I just posted an update with exact steps on the kaigoss method for BMWs with 8" subs under the seat.

Wiring Diagram-l L7.jpg Wiring Harness-1 copy.jpg
 

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Thanks so much! I've been looking for this WAV file for the past week and got two copies in the last hour! Now I just have to find a blank CD. lol

I guess I could just put it on my thumb drive with all my flac files.
 

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Thanks so much! I've been looking for this WAV file for the past week and got two copies in the last hour! lol.
With the DIYMobileAudio forum changing, it is hard for me to read compared to the old forum. So I don't even try to read it with my telephone anymore. So I don't come here on the weekends or at night.
 

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According to Andy, in one of his 5000 posts, skipping the input setup will use the MS8 inputs from line 1 and 2 and "set the filters to unity" which he says means what comes in goes out. The MS8 will shut off the rest of the inputs connected, including the subs. I don't know if this is exactly true or not because the manual states to set the sub speaker outs to inputs 7 & 8. And if you use an aftermarket HU that you can skip the input setup. If skipping only uses line 1 and 2, the MS8 is assuming the aftermarket HU is providing a flat 2-channel signal which I suppose is valid.
So here's my experience FWIW ....

Rev 1 - I set up my MS-8 using speaker level outputs from my Escape (going through full setup / calibration). tried first using only front L&R which were tested and proven to be full-range (o-scope). Sounded great but I lost my backup alarm which I realized were only on rear channels out of the OE HU. So, connected both front and rear channels to MS-8 (inputs 1-4), re-ran setup / calibration, and all was great.

Rev 2 - I learned how to reprogram my OE HU for "flat, low-level output". Connected front and rear to MS-8 low-level inputs 1-4 and skipped input setup / calibration. Music sounded great but I again lost my back alarms. My conclusion - indeed MS-8 ignored inputs 3&4 when calibration / setup was skipped. NOTE - I did NOT check inputs 7&8.

Rev 3 - I ran the "flat, low-level output" in to MS-8 ch 1-4 and ran the setup / calibration. Got my backup alarms back and all sounded great (all inputs, 1-4 were recognized and used for MS-8 output).

Note I did 'subjective perception testing' between using OE HU volume control vs 'set OE volume at calibration level and use MS-8 master volume'; IF there was any difference in SQ it was meaningless to my ears; in day-to-day use I only used my HU volume control, never resorted to the MS-8 remote.

Did the SQ improve by going to "flat, low-level input" and skipping calibration / setup in my case? IMO the answer is "No". To my perception the SQ was great and equal in all of the above iterations, the only difference was capturing the backup alarms. My conclusion - if ya got an OE HU just feed what you need to get full range input, whether high or low-level, run the setup / calibration, and press on. IMO the 'magic' that Andy and the team developed for 'de-EQ' at all volumes, etc, etc all works just great - there's no reason to not take the KISS approach and connect to an OE HU exactly as recommended.

BTW I enjoy Logic 7, was running front, center, rear ambient fill and sub.

Make of it what you will, all just for your consideration, YMMV, have fun :)
 

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That confirms what Andy stated, which isn't surprising. Lol. Now that I have the CD, I'll definitely run the input calibration.

But I need to decide if it's worth tearing my car apart to move the speaker outputs of the subs to input 7-8 on the ms8. According to Andy, I will be missing mono L&R and remove factory time alignment for the sub. Does this matter? I know timing doesn't matter but I'm not sure what he means by sorting out mono right and left. Any thoughts?

If you're connecting to a factory system that includes a subwoofer and you're connecting the subwoofer output to the input of MS-8, the sub output of the factory system should be connected to MS-8's input 7 or 8. In order for MS-8 to sort out the
right and left and mono channels and to remove the factory time alignment, it has to see a high-frequency channel before a
low-frequency mono channel as it samples the incoming signals.
 

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If there is no input correction, it only affects the output if you are missing program content. If it is just an EQ issue, then you might be taking care of that during your acoustic setup anyways. If he two channels you are using is missing program material, like bass completely removed, or highs completely removed, you can't EQ that back. If program material is mixed, like center or left getting steered to that right input, etc, then you'll have an issue.
With hu L7 off and everything flat from the HU, wouldn't center, rear and subs send the same exact signal as the fronts, including below 50 Hz? Is there individual factory time alignment to remove for front, center and rears?

I have fronts, center, rear doors and my subs hooked to inputs although I think I could get away with fewer. Well, I know I can because I calibrated with only fronts and it does rock. Also, I don't think I'm losing any content by not having my subs on inputs 7-8, only time alignment and mono left and right, according to Andy. I'm leaning towards leaving them where they are and just run the input setup.
 

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In my opinion, the MS8 input just wants one pair of full range 20hz to 20khz signal. If the OEM signal does roll off, the MS-8 will try to EQ the signal back to flat. So there is no reason to hook up extra channels of inputs after you achieve a full range signal because then you will be just wasting digital headroom.

P.S. I am using an aftermarket Kenwood headunit that puts full range signal out on a pair of RCAs. With my setup (big ported enclosure tuned to 32hz), I was having way too much bass in the 32hz to 50hz range with a dip at 63hz. So much output that the MS-8 graphic EQ @ -10db could not turn down low enough to remove it. So I did install my Kenwood subwoofer output to channels 7 - 8 MS-8 inputs. I then crossed the Kenwoods internal x-over at 60hz at 24db slope. So that one set of RCAs only had 60hz and down. The other set had 60hz to 20khz.

After the MS-8 did its complete install process, I then tried to use the Kenwood's crossover and level output to turn down the bass somewhat. Doing this it looked better on the RTA & FFT but, sounded weird to me.

So now, I just hooked up the one set of full range RCAs, bypassed the Kenwood's x-overs, time alignment & etc. I also tuned my box to 26hz with a 12db @ 23hz subsonic filter. Now the bass is much more manageable but, I am still having to cut 32hz -8.5db, 40hz -10db and 50hz -5db. The only thing that I can figure is from the front seat is that I have a null around 63hz (yes, I have tried flipping the subs polarity to get the best response) and the MS-8 is boosting the rest of bass to fill in this gap.

So in closing, I would run all the wires just in case that I needed them. Then I would only install the minimum number of inputs to achieve a full range signal. Then set up the MS-8 and then turn off the MS-8's processing to see what my system sounded like. Then go back and adjust your crossovers and/or system to help with the gaps and peaks. Then rerun the MS-8 calibration again with your new settings. I hate to say this but, I have rerun mine at least 30 times to I got my sounding like a loud concert. Each time, I would take notes, measurements and listen to it for about a week or more on what it sounded like. But, my system is a full Logic7 system. If you are doing a 2.1 system, this many reruns should not be necessary.

Now I am totally satisfied and have not touched anything on my system in over 6 months (except for trying to fix the car's plastic rattles). I believe MS-8 helped my sound so much that I bought a bunch of spares to keep in reserve until a better upmixer is on the market.
 

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This is just front speakers and subwoofers with the MS-8 EQ processing and Logic7 off, center speakers and rear speakers unplugged. I was flipping the subwoofer polarity to find the most output in my trouble zone at around 63hz. As you can see one way is a -20db gap compared to the other way. There is no reason to try to make the MS-8 waste digital headroom to fill in that 20db gap when a simple polarity flip do it.
 
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