Joined
·
23 Posts
JimmyDee's BMW Build Log - Updated May 17, 2020
121 - 140 of 161 Posts
Not sure, im going to use a helix dsp.3 and it says it accepts a optical SPDIF input.
Not sure what the difference is between an optical spdif and toslink is.
Same difference.
Joined
·
23 Posts
QUOTE="Gary Mac, post: 5832909, member: 24224"]
Not sure, im going to use a helix dsp.3 and it says it accepts a optical SPDIF input.
Not sure what the difference is between an optical spdif and toslink is.
[/QUOTE]
Hey,
If the instructions indicate, "SPDIf" then definitely uses that!
Not to Dis... anyone here - and I may be wrong - but, I believe they're both the like the same fiber optic cable just, with a different connector/tip.
Cheers!
;-)
Not sure, im going to use a helix dsp.3 and it says it accepts a optical SPDIF input.
Not sure what the difference is between an optical spdif and toslink is.
[/QUOTE]
Hey,
If the instructions indicate, "SPDIf" then definitely uses that!
Not to Dis... anyone here - and I may be wrong - but, I believe they're both the like the same fiber optic cable just, with a different connector/tip.
Cheers!
;-)
Joined
·
24 Posts
You don’t have much play in the OEM fiber cable so you’ll need to mount the SDMI very close to where the fiber cable plugs in to the OEM amp (I ended up mounting it using heavy duty Velcro tape to a piece of the hard plastic that is used to route wires to that area).
I then put my DSP in the cargo area, like Jimmy, and had to use a 6’ fiber cable (SPDIF) to connect to it from the SDMI. That’ll give you enough to work with regardless of where it goes in the trunk. Though there may be one or two spots where a longer cable
Is needed, depending on how you route the wires. It is, after all, fiber optic, so it’s not like you need to worry about the length so much. If you feel more comfortable getting a longer wire because you aren’t sure where it’s going or think it might require the additional length to wire it up, play it safe and go for it.
For what it’s worth... when you’re done, and assuming you’ve removed the OEM amp entirely, you will have two small Molex connectors left that originally went in to the back side (the side facing the front of the car) of the OEM amp. Just cover them up with some anti-static tape, tuck them away and you’re all set.
Joined
·
23 Posts
Hey Jimmy,
Have you ever tried the "Earthquake" ("SWS-8xi") Woofers??
Been reading and I came across something called "Thiele Small parameters".
The Earthquakes have a much lower "FS", which is supposedly better and they can take more power (RMS @ 2 ohms) than (Albeit, 87 Vs. 91 Dbs.) the AD's.
Cheers!
;-)
Have you ever tried the "Earthquake" ("SWS-8xi") Woofers??
Been reading and I came across something called "Thiele Small parameters".
The Earthquakes have a much lower "FS", which is supposedly better and they can take more power (RMS @ 2 ohms) than (Albeit, 87 Vs. 91 Dbs.) the AD's.
Cheers!
;-)
Joined
·
24 Posts
I looked at the Earthquake and SWS OEM under seat replacements (along with the Audison and Ground Control ones, specifically). Both of them take significantly more power than the OEM ones, and quite a bit more than most of the under seat replacement woofers... but I have read mixed reviews on them. Most of the negative SWS/Earthquake reviews talked about the speaker blowing or falling apart after a period of time. I don’t want to turn you away from them (for all I know they may have sorted the issues out) but I would definitely recommend doing plenty of research before pulling the trigger.
I spent hours on these particular speakers because of their significance to the overall system. I’m doing so I came to the conclusion that no matter who makes them, they are all going to be limited in what they can do. This is because of the parameters that the designers have to work with. Those under seat enclosures are small and awkward. There just isn’t much room to work with. I felt it was better to go with a woofer that’s was capable of playing in just about any type of enclosure, or no enclosure, and the NEOs really fit that bill. In fact, when you get them there is a letter in there that talked about why they built them... and that was exactly the reason. An 8” mid woofer that could go just about anywhere. Believe it or not there really aren’t many quality mid woofers out there that can do that!
What I will confirm for you is that these NEOs hammer really good when you have it crossed over at the right point. I just finished getting those puppies in over this past weekend and have been tinkering around with the crossover points for them. Initially I had the high pass set around 140Hz (with a 24Db curve) but after speaking with Jimmy I tried lowering them to 60Hz (with a very steep 42Db curve) and that made a huge difference. They aren’t even broken in yet and they really sound great.
By the way... when you go to replace them do yourself a huge favor and remove the seat from the car. I was trying to get the passenger one out in my garage (it was raining) and I hardly had space on that side of the car so I tried to tilt the seat back and take the enclosure out that way. I managed to do it but it took me much longer than necessary. Don’t make the mistake I made...
Also, if you have a newer model year BMW chances are the OEM woofer is glued to the enclosure. The earlier models had screws that held them in. If there are no screws holding them down you will have to use a hammer and a flat head to break the seal and some elbow grease to pull them away. I ended up screwing my adapter plate to the housing where the earlier models would have been mounted, but when I undo all of this I know I’m going to have to lay down a need of caulk to get the OEMs back in place. The video I linked to in one of my previous posts, from BavAuto, goes in to this and shows you how to hammer out the woofers that are glued in. I highly recommend watching it (it’s easy to damage the OEM enclosure if you don’t!).
This is what mine looked like after I got the ADs mounted on the OEM enclosure. You can see the brass screws where the earlier style woofers would have been mounted. Those are just going through the HDPE adapter I fabricated. I think Jimmy mentioned using a 3/4” piece of HDPE. I only had 1/2” sheets so I used them and they worked out okay. The back may be a tad bit closer to the enclosure than I would have wanted but it was still a good 1/2-3/4” clearance between the back of the NEO and the enclosure. I also seem to have gotten a newer version of the AD because the speaker wire connectors are not as large and intrusive as the ones that were on Jimmy’s. In fact, they barely went past the bottom of the speaker. One thing to note: you may or may not get the oval-ish metal bits that are under the screws in the hardware package with your NEOs. I did and everyone I asked could not figure out what they were for. After giving it some thought where they are now seemed like a logic place to use them since it protected the frame from being damaged when you put the screws in:
![]()
Oh... and you don’t have to worry about grills since the OEM grill will cover it nicely and the speaker won’t touch it even sheen it’s extended to its max.
I spent hours on these particular speakers because of their significance to the overall system. I’m doing so I came to the conclusion that no matter who makes them, they are all going to be limited in what they can do. This is because of the parameters that the designers have to work with. Those under seat enclosures are small and awkward. There just isn’t much room to work with. I felt it was better to go with a woofer that’s was capable of playing in just about any type of enclosure, or no enclosure, and the NEOs really fit that bill. In fact, when you get them there is a letter in there that talked about why they built them... and that was exactly the reason. An 8” mid woofer that could go just about anywhere. Believe it or not there really aren’t many quality mid woofers out there that can do that!
What I will confirm for you is that these NEOs hammer really good when you have it crossed over at the right point. I just finished getting those puppies in over this past weekend and have been tinkering around with the crossover points for them. Initially I had the high pass set around 140Hz (with a 24Db curve) but after speaking with Jimmy I tried lowering them to 60Hz (with a very steep 42Db curve) and that made a huge difference. They aren’t even broken in yet and they really sound great.
By the way... when you go to replace them do yourself a huge favor and remove the seat from the car. I was trying to get the passenger one out in my garage (it was raining) and I hardly had space on that side of the car so I tried to tilt the seat back and take the enclosure out that way. I managed to do it but it took me much longer than necessary. Don’t make the mistake I made...
Also, if you have a newer model year BMW chances are the OEM woofer is glued to the enclosure. The earlier models had screws that held them in. If there are no screws holding them down you will have to use a hammer and a flat head to break the seal and some elbow grease to pull them away. I ended up screwing my adapter plate to the housing where the earlier models would have been mounted, but when I undo all of this I know I’m going to have to lay down a need of caulk to get the OEMs back in place. The video I linked to in one of my previous posts, from BavAuto, goes in to this and shows you how to hammer out the woofers that are glued in. I highly recommend watching it (it’s easy to damage the OEM enclosure if you don’t!).
This is what mine looked like after I got the ADs mounted on the OEM enclosure. You can see the brass screws where the earlier style woofers would have been mounted. Those are just going through the HDPE adapter I fabricated. I think Jimmy mentioned using a 3/4” piece of HDPE. I only had 1/2” sheets so I used them and they worked out okay. The back may be a tad bit closer to the enclosure than I would have wanted but it was still a good 1/2-3/4” clearance between the back of the NEO and the enclosure. I also seem to have gotten a newer version of the AD because the speaker wire connectors are not as large and intrusive as the ones that were on Jimmy’s. In fact, they barely went past the bottom of the speaker. One thing to note: you may or may not get the oval-ish metal bits that are under the screws in the hardware package with your NEOs. I did and everyone I asked could not figure out what they were for. After giving it some thought where they are now seemed like a logic place to use them since it protected the frame from being damaged when you put the screws in:
Oh... and you don’t have to worry about grills since the OEM grill will cover it nicely and the speaker won’t touch it even sheen it’s extended to its max.
Stop posting AD w800 neo pics!
But regarding the earthquakes, I have been told that if you are NOT adding a separate sub the earthquakes are the best bet. However, if you are, then the Jehnert (I actually purchased Jimmy's when he upgraded), AD and MATCH (per Skizer) are the best for midbass duty to 200ish.
Gary
But regarding the earthquakes, I have been told that if you are NOT adding a separate sub the earthquakes are the best bet. However, if you are, then the Jehnert (I actually purchased Jimmy's when he upgraded), AD and MATCH (per Skizer) are the best for midbass duty to 200ish.
Gary
Joined
·
23 Posts
QUOTE="ShastaMcNasty, post: 5833134, member: 186050"][/QUOTE]
Mr. Mcnasty!
Wow! Great write up!!
Good Info. I saw a mixed review - on the durability issue also Ok., I will stick with the AD's!
If I understood you correctly your "low" pass point was 60Hz @ 42db, correct? What was your high pass?
Cheers!
;-)
Mr. Mcnasty!
Wow! Great write up!!
Good Info. I saw a mixed review - on the durability issue also Ok., I will stick with the AD's!
If I understood you correctly your "low" pass point was 60Hz @ 42db, correct? What was your high pass?
Cheers!
;-)
Joined
·
23 Posts
Hey,
The P6 has 2 channels with a full 230 Watts Ea., which , I believe is too strong for either the Earthquake or the AD!
I guess I will have to throttle it ("gain" - these 2 Ch's.) down a bit vis a vis the DSP.
Cheers!
Joined
·
1,872 Posts
I would confirm what Gary has said;
If you do not plan on adding a separate dedicated subwoofer, then use the SWS.
You will definitely lose-out on overall sound quality, but that's the tradeoff you'll need to make.
If you do plan on installing a separate dedicater subwoofer, then:
1. The W800-NEO is the best speaker for BMW underseat (followed closely by the Focal 8WM) - of course, this is just my opinion.
2. The Jehnert is the best 'drop in' speaker for BMW underseat Midbass (not subwoofer) duty.
As Shasta mentioned:
I have my W800's crossed down to 60hz @ a 42db (steep) slope - up to 200hz @ 24db. They thunder!
I had my Jehnerts crossed at 80hz @ 24db up to 200hz @ 24db. They still pound, but you get more poop out of the W800's...
Joined
·
1,872 Posts
If you are planning on using the SWS Earthquakes, they yes, you will probably blow them up with 230 watts @ 2ohm.
If you are going to use the W800's, then don't worry about it. They can handle a LOT of power without even breaking a sweat...
Before swapping to Mosconi PRO amps, I was driving them with my MMATS 4250, and they handled 250 watts without a problem.
My Mosconi PRO is driving 185 watts to each of them, and they love it! Power is not a concern for them.
what did you give the jenherts? Im looking at 180w/
Joined
·
23 Posts
Joined
·
1,872 Posts
If you're planning on using SWS Earthquakes, then you don't need spacers... they just drop in as a direct replacement.
For the W800's; I just used the OEM speakers as a template. Traced them onto 3/4" HDPE. And cut them out with a jigsaw.
Why don't you pull your speakers out from under the seat and measure them.
Then send the measurements to the guy making the spacers? ... or make them yourself. There really isn't much to it.
Joined
·
1,872 Posts
Just to clear this up; they are both the same thing.
Toslink is the brand name (from Toshiba) for an SPDIF cable.
Joined
·
24 Posts
Dr. Who - as Jimmy said you really don’t need much to make the spacers yourself. If someone is offering to make them, well, that’s really nice of them, but if you have a jigsaw you can do it in minutes (literally). Just make sure you sand off any of the fuzzy stuff that doesn’t fully come off when you make your cut. You don’t want that stuff anywhere in your speaker.
Hopefully this will offer you some encouragement...
I just finally got everything in, all wires are good (Jimmy - that pinched wire ended up being between the amp and the OEM wires! Thankfully I didn’t go pulling the driver’s door off again to run another wire. Thanks for making me put the brakes on and think about it a bit!). A lesson to all - it’s almost always the simplest issue that is causing problems! Anyhow, with everything in and a couple of days of tuning under my belt, I am completely awestruck. The sound is out of this world. This is what I’m rocking at the moment:
Amp/Processor
*Mosconi Pro 5/30
*Mosconi Pro 4/10
*Helix SDMI25 Fiber Interface
*Helix DSP Ultra (it is as good as everyone says!)
Front Stage
*Focal TKM tweeters (will put my Esotec2 110s in)
*Dynaudio Esotar2 430 mids
*Audio Developmemt W800-NEO under seat mid woofers
Rear Fill
*Dynaudio Esotec MD102 tweeters
*Dynaudio Esotec MD142 mids
Sub-Duty
*Boston Acoustic Pro 8.5LF subwoofer (using manufacturer recommended 0.30 sealed box)
Happy building and Happy 4th everyone!!!
Hopefully this will offer you some encouragement...
I just finally got everything in, all wires are good (Jimmy - that pinched wire ended up being between the amp and the OEM wires! Thankfully I didn’t go pulling the driver’s door off again to run another wire. Thanks for making me put the brakes on and think about it a bit!). A lesson to all - it’s almost always the simplest issue that is causing problems! Anyhow, with everything in and a couple of days of tuning under my belt, I am completely awestruck. The sound is out of this world. This is what I’m rocking at the moment:
Amp/Processor
*Mosconi Pro 5/30
*Mosconi Pro 4/10
*Helix SDMI25 Fiber Interface
*Helix DSP Ultra (it is as good as everyone says!)
Front Stage
*Focal TKM tweeters (will put my Esotec2 110s in)
*Dynaudio Esotar2 430 mids
*Audio Developmemt W800-NEO under seat mid woofers
Rear Fill
*Dynaudio Esotec MD102 tweeters
*Dynaudio Esotec MD142 mids
Sub-Duty
*Boston Acoustic Pro 8.5LF subwoofer (using manufacturer recommended 0.30 sealed box)
Happy building and Happy 4th everyone!!!
121 - 140 of 161 Posts
Join the discussion
Join now to ask and comment!